Ringtones - Licensing - Don't blame Apple

[DRabbit]

Zero of my 2,400 songs are available for ringtones. If I buy a CD, I should have the right to take 20 seconds from any song and use it as my ringtone. Not cool Apple. Not cool.

^I took this quote from another post^

I know everyone blames Apple, but you should try to read the convoluted music licensing laws before you're so quick to jump. From what I understand, you are NOT legally within your rights to create a ringtone from a song you already bought -- and lets face facts, a lot of people here already admit they didn't buy their MP3s to begin with -- but even if you did, your "personal use license" (which is what you get when you buy a song or CD) doesn't include making that song (or a song from that CD) into a ringtone.

Nearly ALL cellphone providers sell ringtones, and though they seemingly make it easy for you to transfer your "free" MP3 ringtones you created yourself, that doesn't make it legal... and because those same cellphone providers aren't music retailers (like Apple is), they probably aren't under the magnifying glass of music publishers.

In other words, because Apple is THE largest online digital music retailer, they have to play the game. If they make it easy for you to create ringtones out of the songs you already have (not to mention all the ones you have illegally) they are not following the licensing laws... and NO music publisher is going to go along with that. Apple is not going to risk it's relationships with its providers of digital music. That's just bad business.

For the ones who are determined to get around Copyright laws and make ringtones anyway, we already know there are tools to do it... but don't expect Apple to make it easy for you. They just can't. You can't expect the largest retailer of online digital music to help it's consumers break the law.

Simply put:
The rights to a song as a ringtone are separate from the rights to the song as a music track. Blame the RIAA or music publishers.

[AquaHump]

Originally Posted by DRabbit

^I took this quote from another post^

I know everyone blames Apple, but you should try to read the convoluted music licensing laws before you're so quick to jump. From what I understand, you are NOT legally within your rights to create a ringtone from a song you already bought -- and lets face facts, a lot of people here already admit they didn't buy their MP3s to begin with -- but even if you did, your "personal use license" (which is what you get when you buy a song or CD) doesn't include making that song (or a song from that CD) into a ringtone.

Nearly ALL cellphone providers sell ringtones, and though they seemingly make it easy for you to transfer your "free" MP3 ringtones you created yourself, that doesn't make it legal... and because those same cellphone providers aren't music retailers (like Apple is), they probably aren't under the magnifying glass of music publishers.

In other words, because Apple is THE largest online digital music retailer, they have to play the game. If they make it easy for you to create ringtones out of the songs you already have (not to mention all the ones you have illegally) they are not following the licensing laws... and NO music publisher is going to go along with that. Apple is not going to risk it's relationships with its providers of digital music. That's just bad business.

For the ones who are determined to get around copyright laws and make ringtones anyway, we already know there are tools to do it... but don't expect Apple to make it easy for you. They just can't. You can't expect the largest retailer of online digital music to help it's consumers break the law.

Simply put:
The rights to a song as a ringtone are separate from the rights to the song as a music track. Blame the RIAA or music publishers.

Very well put. A Lot more songs will become available in time.

[Revans310]

I'm sticking with the quote it's just a Ringtone.

[Prelector]

Originally Posted by DRabbit

I know everyone blames Apple, but you should try to read the convoluted music licensing laws before you're so quick to jump. From what I understand, you are NOT legally within your rights to create a ringtone from a song you already bought -- and lets face facts, a lot of people here already admit they didn't buy their MP3s to begin with -- but even if you did, your "personal use license" (which is what you get when you buy a song or CD) doesn't include making that song (or a song from that CD) into a ringtone.

Your understanding is false.

The US Copyright Office ruled on Oct 17, 2006:

Originally Posted by RIAA newspost

WASHINGTON – Today, the U.S. Copyright Office issued a decision on the legal status of ringtones, finding that mere excerpts of pre-existing sound recordings used for ringtones fall under the compulsory license provisions of section 115 of the copyright law.

You can look up the relevant Chapter 17, Section 115 of the Copyright law, but basically: Compulsory License Provision allows for the creation of a non-derivitive portion of a song for personal use. The caveat here, is that the song in question has to have been offered for sale to the public already (can't use unreleased songs without the owners permission). There is also a royalty reference for the compulsory license, but this royalty requirement is still under review by the courts, and as such is not legally binding until a decision is made.

I would guess, Apples argument for the 99cent fee is this royalty, however, the stated royalty payment is 2cents. At their most careful, Apple wouldn't need to charge more than this 2cents. That leaves 97cents going into Apples pocket for each ringtone.

And before you jump on the RIAA for this, it was the RIAA that took the issue before the courts, and argued that ringtones should be included in Section 115. It was the Artists and Producers that argued AGAINST it.

[Jagbomb]

^^^^^^

Nice work.

2 cents Apple. Make it happen. 50 ringtones for a dollar. Make it happen.

[AquaHump]

Originally Posted by Jagbomb

^^^^^^

Nice work.

2 cents Apple. Make it happen. 50 ringtones for a dollar. Make it happen.

You will never see it, We pay for the novelty. Thats what it boils down to.

[bsharp]

Originally Posted by DRabbit

^I took this quote from another post^

I know everyone blames Apple, but you should try to read the convoluted music licensing laws before you're so quick to jump. From what I understand, you are NOT legally within your rights to create a ringtone from a song you already bought -- and lets face facts, a lot of people here already admit they didn't buy their MP3s to begin with -- but even if you did, your "personal use license" (which is what you get when you buy a song or CD) doesn't include making that song (or a song from that CD) into a ringtone.

Nearly ALL cellphone providers sell ringtones, and though they seemingly make it easy for you to transfer your "free" MP3 ringtones you created yourself, that doesn't make it legal... and because those same cellphone providers aren't music retailers (like Apple is), they probably aren't under the magnifying glass of music publishers.

In other words, because Apple is THE largest online digital music retailer, they have to play the game. If they make it easy for you to create ringtones out of the songs you already have (not to mention all the ones you have illegally) they are not following the licensing laws... and NO music publisher is going to go along with that. Apple is not going to risk it's relationships with its providers of digital music. That's just bad business.

For the ones who are determined to get around copyright laws and make ringtones anyway, we already know there are tools to do it... but don't expect Apple to make it easy for you. They just can't. You can't expect the largest retailer of online digital music to help it's consumers break the law.

Simply put:
The rights to a song as a ringtone are separate from the rights to the song as a music track. Blame the RIAA or music publishers.

Well said. I've been saying the same for some time.

[burniksapwet]

Originally Posted by Prelector

Your understanding is false.

The US Copyright Office ruled on Oct 17, 2006:



You can look up the relevant Chapter 17, Section 115 of the Copyright law, but basically: Compulsory License Provision allows for the creation of a non-derivitive portion of a song for personal use. The caveat here, is that the song in question has to have been offered for sale to the public already (can't use unreleased songs without the owners permission). There is also a royalty reference for the compulsory license, but this royalty requirement is still under review by the courts, and as such is not legally binding until a decision is made.

I would guess, Apples argument for the 99cent fee is this royalty, however, the stated royalty payment is 2cents. At their most careful, Apple wouldn't need to charge more than this 2cents. That leaves 97cents going into Apples pocket for each ringtone.

And before you jump on the RIAA for this, it was the RIAA that took the issue before the courts, and argued that ringtones should be included in Section 115. It was the Artists and Producers that argued AGAINST it.

Excellent post. I would never pay for ringtones which I already have in my collection.

[SmartAlx]

bsharp, why didn't you people read Prelector's reply? He proves quite clearly with US Law that Apple IS indeed being greedy. That the RIAA is not trying to get people to pay for ringtones of songs they already have. That ringtones made from music already purchased can be legally created and installed. In essence, Apple SHOULD give us the ability to create and install ringtones FOR FREE!

[burniksapwet]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

burniksapwet and bsharp, why didn't you people read Prelector's reply? He proves quite clearly with US Law that Apple IS indeed being greedy. That the RIAA is not trying to get people to pay for ringtones of songs they already have. That ringtones made from music already purchased can be legally created and installed. In essence, Apple SHOULD give us the ability to create and install ringtones FOR FREE!

Actually it was him that I wanted to quote. Hehehehehe I guess I wasn't paying attention. Sorry about that. Like I said I will never pay for ringtones which I already purchased.

**I fixed it**