Well, it looks like I am going to be single again...

[Hawk]

Yeah... This sucks, but at this point inevitable. I can want to work it out till the cows come home, but if she's not willing, than the effort is wasted.
Some of you know what's been going on from my Tweets, most of you don't.
The wife and I have hit a wall in the relationship. By my point of view, she has changed as a person to a degree that I don't recognize her as the woman I married. I wanted to get counseling and try to fix it, but she has been determined to end this relationship for a while now, and yesterday, she finally said it's over. As sad as this all is, I am no longer going to waste time on someone that does not want to be with me.

This weekend, I guess I really will be celebrating my "Independence day."

[up10ad]

Hawk, sorry to hear that. I'm sure your will move on with a renewed spirit and I certainly wish you all the best.

[Mike12000]

Hawk, I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like you have a healthy attitude towards your troubles though. We really don't have much power to change anyone. And yet people change through the years. Under the circumstances, you're probably better off seperating now then working on the marriage for 5-10 years and then still getting divorced. Do you have children together? That sure makes things much less complicated if there aren't.

I'm wishing you all the best in what is usually a very tough, gut-wrenching transition. Stay strong and true to yourself, Hawk!

[Hawk]

Thanks Upload and Mike. :)


The really sad part is that this coming August will be 3 years. The problems seem to have started when we bought our house last July. Don't exactly understand why, but it is the focal point of where things started going south for us.
I can only speculate that the domestic lifestyle must have scared her. An Apartment must have meant flexibility, while the house signaled permanence. Whatever the case may be, I still love her to death. But like I said, I cannot be with someone that does not want to be with me. Who knows, maybe when i bring the paperwork by the reality of the situation will finally hit her.

yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt too...

[psylichon]

:( Always sad to see this happen, especially to a great person. I hope everything comes through for the best for you both...

[gogoplata1980]

Sorry to hear this. I pray you the best in everything. Again, I'm very sorry for you.

[chris]

Sorry to hear the bad news. Keep your head up, stay positive and things will work out in the long run for you. You'll hear it a million times, but it will just take time. Surround yourself with friends and focus on doing things you enjoy....like paintball.

[TarekElsakka]

I'm terribly sorry to hear that. You're right though, don't stick to some one who doesn't want to be with you. Don't worry, it's not all over once when you get divorced, there are a lot of other single girls and women out there looking for relationships, that's if you're planning to get in one. Good luck man.

[Hawk]

Thanks everyone. I have a feeling that this is going to hit me like a ton of bricks in the next couple days. it seems surreal at the moment. I started this thread because I needed to talk about it. That in itself is one of the major disagreements (one of many) that she and I have. When i have a problem, I have no problem going to friends, even online ones, and talk about it. When she has a problem, she buries it and clams up as she believes it's no ones business but hers. That was actually what we were talking about when she said it was over. It's because when things first started getting ugly, I brought her father into it.

[lady_bugz22]

Hawk- I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but you are right you can not change her & you deserve better if she's not willing to work things out.

When I was married to my ex & we were going through our divorce I always thought to myself I am miserable right now which will only be temporarily, but if I was to stay with him I would always be miserable.

I kept telling myself this & it would actually help me get through the days I thought I couldn't get through it.

Surround yourself with friends & family, keep busy, & if you feel you need it get counseling for yourself.

[iCafe]

Sorry to hear about this, the only way to get over her is to fall in love with someone else even deeper.

[patrickj]

Very sorry to hear you're going through this. I was gutted when my ex in the UK and I split, and circumstances were similar to yours. My only advice is similar to others above, and is stuff I didn't always follow, but when I did I felt a whole lot better:

Indulge yourself for a little bit when it does hit you like a ton of bricks - have a drink or two, listen to all the soppy songs that remind you of her and 'us' (not you and me Hawk, you and her), stare at the walls, talk to your dog about it, feel sorry for yourself.

Allow a couple days, or a couple weeks, or whatever your own timeframe is for that.

Then, get busy - go out a lot, see friends a lot (and don't constantly talk about the ex), do your paintball and any other physical things you enjoy (great stress relievers). Lead a hectic life that makes the time go by quick, because just like the cliche goes, time will be the biggest aid in healing.

And think about that 'everything happens for a reason' nonsense that women always say. I never used to give that any credence, but now have more and more faith in it. My split led me eventually to my new wife - who is the most amazing person I've ever met, is my partner and friend forever, and the world's best mom to our lovely daughter.

Anyway, like everyone here, thinking good thoughts for you ...

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Man, Hawk - I'm really sorry to hear that. I went through it in the 90s, so my best advice to you is to always have someone to talk to and try to stay involved and busy.

Good luck, my friend.

Kev

[acosmichippo]

Sorry to hear that, man.

But it sounds like your head is in a good place. Go find someone that appreciates you. Easier said than done, I know.

[up10ad]

Hawk,

Patrick is saying all the right things. Take his advice.

[WetNsmelly]

even though i don't know you at all, sorry to hear this.


this is not directed at you, but whatever happened to "until death do us part"???

[lady_bugz22]

even though i don't know you at all, sorry to hear this.


this is not directed at you, but whatever happened to "until death do us part"???

It takes two people to make a marriage work. If one is not willing to make it work then its time to move on.

[The Apple]

Compromise. If one party can't do this, they cannot be a healthy team. It sounds to me like you are willing to work it out and she is not. I wish you all the best Hawk.

[kokogirl]

Hawk, I am sorry that you have to go through this. We are here when you need to vent/talk.

[Hawk]

Thanks everyone. Today she got kinda ugly with me. Not to air everything out here, but lets just say that I wasn't at my best either.
The funny part was that her threat was that if such and such a thing happens, when we divorce, I will never see her again.
I was thinking, "you promise?"


Sorry, bad humor. I just need to find something to laugh about. guess it's time for some cartoon network.

[rarity]

Sorry. This must be tough.

[coasts]

hawk, i'm not too good with words, so i'll defer to two of my favorite artists, each representing a different side of the coin.

Kurt Vonnegut: "There is no way a beautiful woman can live up to what she looks like for any appreciable length of time."

Elliott Smith: Everything Reminds Me of Her

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ0Pvslqb_Y

[Hondamaker]

Sorry, brother. I've been there, I feel your pain. It gets better, though. Just hang in there!

[Ramesh]

Hawk - good luck man. It's gonna suck, but you'll make it, and be a better man in the end.

[Londonrockz568]

this is not directed at you, but whatever happened to "until death do us part"???

Till death do us part?

It's still happening.

The marriage has fizzled, the love for each other or love for another has died therefore the marriage or bond that keeps two people together dies.

Till death do us part...death can be many things.

[WetNsmelly]

no, "until death do us part" means that the marriage will last, as you gave your vows, until you die. that is the sacred meaning of "marriage". hawk, i am not trying to jack your thread, because you seem like a very stand up guy, and there really is nothing you can do. however, "death" does not mean until the marriage is done. marriage is/was supposed to be a scared, one time event. something to fight for, something to work through "in sickness and in health" NO MATTER WHAT. i realize that it takes two to make it work, and hawk's wife isn't giving him much to work with, it is just pathetic that society today has gotten so devalued with the sense of marriage.


i agree with you london that "death" can mean many different things, however, in the vows of marriage it means exactly what it states. unfortunately, people have forgotten that, as clearly demonstrated by hawk's wife's actions.

[Hawk]

no, "until death do us part" means that the marriage will last, as you gave your vows, until you die. that is the sacred meaning of "marriage". hawk, i am not trying to jack your thread, because you seem like a very stand up guy, and there really is nothing you can do. however, "death" does not mean until the marriage is done. marriage is/was supposed to be a scared, one time event. something to fight for, something to work through "in sickness and in health" NO MATTER WHAT. i realize that it takes two to make it work, and hawk's wife isn't giving him much to work with, it is just pathetic that society today has gotten so devalued with the sense of marriage.


i agree with you london that "death" can mean many different things, however, in the vows of marriage it means exactly what it states. unfortunately, people have forgotten that, as clearly demonstrated by hawk's wife's actions.

In the Catholic Faith, Marriage is a Sacrament and is supposed to be for life and beyond. Obviously, that didn't happen. It didn't even make it a full 3 years. Much of this has to do with perceptions and that my wife's personality has changed- or finally truly opened up for the first time since I met her. I was willing to work on those things and get through it as a transitional period, whether these changes are permanent or temporary. In her mind, the marriage was over back around the beginning of the year. I did not have a clue until April, and even then, never knew that her perception was that it was that bad. By the time I tried to "leap into action" it was way too late in her eyes, and nothing I did was good enough anymore. I cannot change what has happened, and I do not want to suffer through her transgressions anymore. As much as I don't even like the word, divorce is the only solution at this point. I cannot make her want to fix things, and in order to do so would take months of serious counseling, something she is not willing to do.

The really sad thing is that in a couple years, it going to be very likely that it's going to dawn on her what she ruined. I'm no saint and I am not perfect, but I am pretty damn sure that she will not find a better man than me when it comes to how I treated her.

[kisstine]

Hawk, first of all, I'm really sorry that *this* is where you are today. You've always seemed like such a nice guy and it sucks to see good people slogging through crap. {{hugs}}

Second, I'm sure you're right about her waking up and realizing what a stupid move this was. Yesterday was my 19th wedding anniversary. I cannot tell you how many times over the course of that many years I have been irritated with this man. *That* is what it is like to live with another person day in and day out for a long, long time. There have been times I've felt trapped. There have been times I've wished I'd made other choices. But, ultimately, I know that there wouldn't be anyone better for me. We make a good team. We've created a life and a family together. Yes, there are some hard times.. I doubt there are marriages without them... but if I ever chose to leave because of them, I would be a fool. The grass may look greener elsewhere, but you're still gonna have to mow it and feed it and pull the weeds.

And @WetnSmelly... there *are* in fact people who are living "til death do us part" and taking that seriously.. but it does take TWO partners buying in at that level of commitment to keep a marriage together. Hawk doesn't have that if his wife isn't willing to work through whatever is keeping her from going all-in. I do agree that, to some extent, the general willingness to work on keeping a marriage together is undermined by how acceptable it is in our society to just undo the whole thing and move on. At the same time, it isn't my place to decide what is right for other people, only for myself.

Again, Hawk, I'm sorry. I hope that she comes to her senses as the reality of what she is choosing to do begins to hit her. If that does not happen, I know that some other woman will end up grateful for her ignorance.

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Till death do us part?

It's still happening.

The marriage has fizzled, the love for each other or love for another has died therefore the marriage or bond that keeps two people together dies.

Till death do us part...death can be many things.

Sorry, London, but that is a load of crap. How old are you again?

[Luckykelleyk]

Sorry, London, but that is a load of crap. How old are you again?

Haha, I also think it's funny that people who are very young, and obviously unmarried (and then there is icafe ;-) ) are putting in their 2 cents about something that they clearly don't know anything about.

Hawk, I am very sorry, I can only imagine how heartbreaking it is to have your wife give up on your marraige like that. I know you will find someone who is more deserving of your love in the future.

[aknightstale41]

Hang in there Hawk, you get stronger and wiser on the other side of this.

[Londonrockz568]

no, "until death do us part" means that the marriage will last, as you gave your vows, until you die. that is the sacred meaning of "marriage". hawk, i am not trying to jack your thread, because you seem like a very stand up guy, and there really is nothing you can do. however, "death" does not mean until the marriage is done. marriage is/was supposed to be a scared, one time event. something to fight for, something to work through "in sickness and in health" NO MATTER WHAT. i realize that it takes two to make it work, and hawk's wife isn't giving him much to work with, it is just pathetic that society today has gotten so devalued with the sense of marriage.


i agree with you london that "death" can mean many different things, however, in the vows of marriage it means exactly what it states. unfortunately, people have forgotten that, as clearly demonstrated by hawk's wife's actions.

I know that it means together until death... But thanks for clarifying.

Sorry, London, but that is a load of crap. How old are you again?

I was metaphorically speaking, but hey if crap means being old and alone then tis such a horrid way to live a life.

Haha, I also think it's funny that people who are very young, and obviously unmarried (and then there is icafe ;-) ) are putting in their 2 cents about something that they clearly don't know anything about.

Regardless of if i've never been married yet, i have parents that have been married/divorced etc. Young people notice alot more than we let on.


To Hawk: Hang in there it will all take a turn for good in due time.

[psylichon]

To Hawk: Hang in there it will all take a turn for good in due time.


Ya know, London, ^that's^ all you really had to say in the first place.

[Londonrockz568]

But i didnt want to. :P

[kakofonix]

I have no easy words for you, Hawk. It is tough to go thru what's happening to you right now and you'll probably feel worse before you start feeling better. I'll just be quiet and be pensive too. Cartoon Network is a great idea. There are a couple of nice movies out too. Keep your good sense of humor. Some sage once said "A merry heart doeth good like medicine". This too shall pass... Ok, I know, enough with the clichés, already. Pass the popcorn....

[Mike12000]

I was metaphorically speaking, but hey if crap means being old and alone then tis such a horrid way to live a life.


I strongly feel that being with someone and feeling alone is a much more horrible way to live one's life. To quote the lyrics of Yes: "Owner of a lonely heart/much better than a/owner of a broken heart"

[Hawk]

I have lived with someone and felt alone, and I have been with someone and had a broken heart. It all sucks.
Being alone and by yourself is not that bad. the trick is to surround yourself with lots of good people.
If I ever find someone new, I will just take it one day at a time like I always do. The only thing I think that will be different is how we communicate. this relationship died partly due to neither of us being able to really talk. In that respect, I am to blame as much as she is, but that usually is something that can be over-come. In this case, her not telling me what she was feeling and hiding it from me was the killer. She was already out of the relationship in her mind long before I ever knew that there was even a problem. The other thing is that she doesn't want to fix things - she would rather leave and remain my friend. After all that has transpired, that is NOT going to happen.

As far as my mental state... It's very strange. I know that I have anger, but it doesn't surface really. I know I have sadness, but I couldn't cry if I wanted to. What I feel right now is a little relief, and a bit excited at the prospect of a new start. I guess that is the way I cope.

[jerni]

Thanks Upload and Mike. :)


The really sad part is that this coming August will be 3 years. The problems seem to have started when we bought our house last July. Don't exactly understand why, but it is the focal point of where things started going south for us.
I can only speculate that the domestic lifestyle must have scared her. An Apartment must have meant flexibility, while the house signaled permanence.


Wow,that's kind of scary to read, my husband and I are currently trying to close on a house and it'll be 3 years of marriage on the 21st. Marriage is hard, and although it will hurt, if you truly tried to make it work, you can walk away knowing you did all you could. I'm sorry and I hope you both find happiness.

[iCafe]

Now that its over find a good divorce lawyer, hide some of your money and dont let this woman run you dry ....p.s. sell the house!!!
p.p.s. You are really lucky you dont have any kids with her because you can divorce here and really be done with it, she can stay out of your life, its better that way.

p.p.p.s. My uncle was married 3 times and is currently married to my aunt for 20 + years, its all about finding the rite one, you'll find her when the times rite
but your soon to be ex isnt it

p.p.p.p.s. before you settle down again sleep with atleast 10 women, its really easy and fun!

[Hawk]

iCafe, sometimes you make me wonder....
Can't seel the house even if I wanted to. FHA loan requires ownership for 2 years before any attempt to sell can be made. The divorce might over-ride that, but not likely. Plus with the market like it is, I'll lose the equity I have in the house.

I have done all I can do with this marriage- including forgiving her. It's just not meant to be.

No boom boom till the divorce is final. Anything before that can put me in a world of hurt. Besides, have to have a willing participant. Right now, I'm damaged goods.

[iCafe]

iCafe, sometimes you make me wonder....
Can't seel the house even if I wanted to. FHA loan requires ownership for 2 years before any attempt to sell can be made. The divorce might over-ride that, but not likely. Plus with the market like it is, I'll lose the equity I have in the house.

I have done all I can do with this marriage- including forgiving her. It's just not meant to be.

No boom boom till the divorce is final. Anything before that can put me in a world of hurt. Besides, have to have a willing participant. Right now, I'm damaged goods.
Just dont let her get the cash , anyway im just going to leave this over here
you can click it when the time is rite
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/search/ads?query=w4m

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

p.p.p.p.s. before you settle down again sleep with atleast 10 women, its really easy and fun!

Okay, One Who Shall Not Be Named.

[connie]

Hawk, I'm so sorry, I can honestly say i know what you're going through almost exactly. I don't post as much as before because I have been going through a very tough time about it. Life can be so hard sometimes, but I totally love your attitude. Chin up, a sad chapter may be closing but new happier ones are still ahead, it's just the time and healing it takes to get there is very hard. I hope you're doing ok.

[iCafe]

Seriously, I am sorry to hear about anyone who is going through this, I cant imagine how hard it must be, i think this is a good source if you have any questions you want answered

http://www.divorcesupport.com/divorce/Divorce-Overview-2892.html

[Londonrockz568]

You want the house? Pack Her bags give her the good heave ho.

[Europa]

iCafe, sometimes you make me wonder....
Can't seel the house even if I wanted to. FHA loan requires ownership for 2 years before any attempt to sell can be made. The divorce might over-ride that, but not likely. Plus with the market like it is, I'll lose the equity I have in the house.

I have done all I can do with this marriage- including forgiving her. It's just not meant to be.

No boom boom till the divorce is final. Anything before that can put me in a world of hurt. Besides, have to have a willing participant. Right now, I'm damaged goods.
Hawk, sorry about all you're going through. I've been through it myself and it's tough. You've got a lot going for you, you're a reasonable, smart, and likable guy, so keep your chin up and move on, and I think you'll be just fine.

Now, as far as the house. With less than 3 years on the mortgage, you probably don't have any equity yet anyway. That is unless you got a 15 year loan or were making double payments the entire time on a 30 year loan. Maybe one of you guys could keep it and buy the other one out? If not, what's your plan with the house?

[Hawk]

Well, since when we bought this house is about when things in her mind started to go south, she doesn't want it. Not that she could afford it on her own anyway... She actually doesn't like it at all. This of course contradicts the impression she gave everyone when we were in the purchasing phaze.
There is $19500 on my Amex that most of which is purchases I made for her. over 6k in taxes when she was a 1099 and also cashed out a retirement plan early the first year, a 3500 PC, a 2500 Video camera, and a 1K tape to PC deck. She also got our 6500 tax refund this year and paid down her credit cards. Add all that up. It right around 19-20k.
If I tried to sell the house in the next 3-5 years, I would lose money plus we have only had it a year. Everything from this point forward is me investing in it. And I do not want a roommate- I need some major private time.
All I asked for is her engagement ring, which I was going to sell to pay down the Amex a little. The most I can speculate that I can sell the ring for is 3500 - at best (it's appraised at 6150) so I don't believe I am being unfair. She thinks I want the ring to be vedictive and told me I can have it, but I can never ever see or talk to her again.
Somehow, that threat is one I can live with...

[Europa]

She sounds very immature. That's so lame that she's trying to threaten you that you'll never see her again if you take it back. IMO, you should get it back. That's just the right thing for her to do. If the marriage is over, the ring should go back to the purchaser. I don't look at it like other jewelery given to the woman during the marriage. She won't still wear an engagement ring once the divorce is final, so there's no reason for her to keep it (unless she wants to sell it...which I think is wrong).

Can you afford the house payments on your own? How much was your down payment?

[MrMike6by9]

Hawk, please accept my condolences for your loss. I started a new relationship about 17 months ago and learned that I was in love with a person who, like me, would respond with passive aggression to slights, hurts, and disappointments. I vowed, this time around, to be more alert to this and not quit until I draw out what is really wrong. We had such an event just this past weekend. It seems to me that when these poisonous thoughts and feelings stay in the dark, they eventually poison the heart; the relationship. For your next relationship and with your family and friends, practice never letting those inner demons ruin things. Try to let the light of openness disinfect the wound before it festers.

All my best. You WILL overcome this bump in the road.

Peace

[Hawk]

She sounds very immature. That's so lame that she's trying to threaten you that you'll never see her again if you take it back. IMO, you should get it back. That's just the right thing for her to do. If the marriage is over, the ring should go back to the purchaser. I don't look at it like other jewelery given to the woman during the marriage. She won't still wear an engagement ring once the divorce is final, so there's no reason for her to keep it (unless she wants to sell it...which I think is wrong).

Can you afford the house payments on your own? How much was your down payment?
She hasn't worn the ring in Months. I should have just held onto it, but I tried to get her to wear it before the fateful trip that lead us down this last part of the road we apparently have been on.
I can afford the house payments. My mortgage with Ins. and taxes all rolled in is around 1260.

[aggieman]

sorry to hear you are having to deal with all of this Hawk. I can't offer any advice different than what has already been said by others but just letting you know you have my well wishes. Good luck with everything.