TomTom App

[Hinezy]

Has there been any more info on the release of the TomTom app? Like how much $, release date or anything else?

[Europa]

Not that I know of. For some reason, I have it set in my mind that it's going to cost $30 for the stand alone app. I'm very excited indeed.

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Not that I know of. For some reason, I have it set in my mind that it's going to cost $30 for the stand alone app. I'm very excited indeed.

I think the app will cost much more than $30 if it isn't subscription-based. Probably closer to $99, but that's just my guess.

[Europa]

I was guessing it would be around $99 for the hardware/App combo.

[Eragon]

I think the app will cost much more than $30 if it isn't subscription-based. Probably closer to $99, but that's just my guess.

I think that's a good guess. I spent $99 for my Garmin mobile app for Blackberry. That also wasn't a subscription app.

[Hinezy]

My biggest fear is that they go subscription, now that apple has made that possible! I'm hoping they don't go too expensive. I think $40 seems fair, $100 could buy you your own independent gps!

[hitnrun]

Tom Tom has been saying they will be releasing the app for awhile now. It's time for them to put up or shut up!

[macgirl]

My biggest fear is that they go subscription, now that apple has made that possible! I'm hoping they don't go too expensive. I think $40 seems fair, $100 could buy you your own independent gps!

I don't think it will be a subscription as there's no way to really implement this the way the App Store is set up. However, they will be able to do in-app purchases, so TomTom could offer the option to buy updated maps within the navigation app without requiring you to go back to the App Store to buy new maps. That will be cool, though I hope it's not going to be annoying with pop-up reminders about buying new maps every time you open it.

I think the app with maps will cost around $100, which is how much I paid for TomTom's navigation app for my Palm PDA years ago. But there could be some interesting price wars with Navigon releasing their own navigation app, too.

[JoeT]

For the Palm platform, TomTom was a one-time sale with updated maps, different voice packs (including the HILARIOUS Ozzy Osbourne voice), and traffic costing extra.

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

It's time for them to put up or shut up!

Why would you say that? TomTom was waiting for turn-by-turn support on the iPhone in firmware 3.0 before releasing it.

[dturner]

I too think $99 sounds right as a price point. Does anyone have any idea if this will work on the 3G, or will the new phone be required?

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

It should work fine on the 3G, since it's 3.0 that provides turn-by-turn support.

[Hinezy]

I too think $99 sounds right as a price point. Does anyone have any idea if this will work on the 3G, or will the new phone be required?

It should work fine for 3G, the reason I say this is because it was advertised as a 3.0 feature and not a 3G S feature.

[dturner]

Thanks guys. I wasn't sure if it would need the faster processor.

[ant7701]

ill wait for navigon. Better user-friendly gps imo

[Cantwait4iPhone]

To answer the original questions, I don't believe too much more info has been released at this point. I'd say if anything comes up, you can find it here. (http://iphone.tomtom.com/)

It looks like a very cool app, and I look forward to seeing what they do with it.

[arnold ziffle]

for 99$ or so won't the less expensive units get reception where the iPhone won't.

[jlhollander]

Their website says that pricing for both the app and the windshield mount will be released later this summer.

[dturner]

Their website says that pricing for both the app and the windshield mount will be released later this summer.
Everything seems to be "later this summer".:tounge:

[termleech]

I know it's quite annoying the whole "later this summer." I think all the companies know that anything related to thew new 3GS especially MMS and turn by turn are in such demand if they don't meet a specific date people are going to be really angry. I can't blame them for not wanting to piss off their user base. We know how impatient we all are :)

[Youngbinks]

I too think it might be closer to $100. I was thinking less initially due to the lack of the need to produce a unit, but based on other turn-by-turn app prices it seems like it would be more.

I got tired of waiting and bought a Garmin last December. It's worked great since so until it stops working, I don't see a need for TomTom.

[kimo]

In the keynote, the Tom Tom rep said in September.

:2cool:

[crazymikesapps]

I have an inside source at Tom Tom in MA and I am not sure it is going to be out right away. I was told today that it may be 30 days before I get a promo code to test the app or adhoc.

[dturner]

I got tired of waiting and bought a Garmin last December. It's worked great since so until it stops working, I don't see a need for TomTom.
As far as stand alone units go, I prefer the Garmin over the Tom Tom. I wish Garmin would make an app for the phone.

[termleech]

Highly unlikely we'll see anything from Garmin in the app store. They are tied up with Asus on their own phone so I imagine they wouldn't spend the money to make a competing app to their own program despite the fact the will make a lot more money in the app store.

[mcfeets88]

will the tomtom app be available for the iphone 3g also or just the iphone 3gs?????

[Europa]

Their website says that pricing for both the app and the windshield mount will be released later this summer.
And it's not even summer yet!

[mcfeets88]

And it's not even summer yet!

do you know whether the tomtom app will be available on the 3g or just the 3g s?

[dturner]

do you know whether the tomtom app will be available on the 3g or just the 3g s?
Both............

[KrakaJap]

Check this out: http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/06/tomtoms-iphone-car-kit-and-navigation-software-priced-overseas/

I hope the price is incorrect... what I would like to see is $49 for the app plus maps (cheaper if not free updates of course) and $99 for the hardware. I could deal with that. Of course right now ANYTHING would be a significant improvement over ATT Navigator! That application is utterly worthless!

Also... it is rumored that if you purchase the hardware, it will also work with the iPod Touch (obviously not just with the software alone). Has anyone else heard this?

[melholmes23]

I expected the cost to be around $50 for the app and $100-$150 for the hardware, but we have an answer for cost of each. The release date shown on the app store is Saturday, August 15th, 2009, but according to the article below, it wasn't yet released on Sunday evening. The cost of the US & Canada version of the app is $99.99. I haven't found a price for the hardware yet.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/08/16/tomtom_iphone_app_released_in_new_zealand_priced_a t_84_u_s_.html

[KrakaJap]

I'm not too impressed with TomTom's app. :( Disappointed really. Navigon is clearly the winner in my book... at least until I have a chance to test the TomTom app with the car kit (yet to be released).

The TomTom maps are not 100% accurate... there have been plenty of complaints on this and of course others that say the maps are fine... well... if they're not fine for even a single person then they're not 100% now are they? :P

On my way to work I was told I had arrived at my destination about 6 miles before I was actually there!!! And then when I got there it told me I was no longer on a road. Navigon found my destination precisely and even had a map of campus and kept track when I was no longer on a "road". Navigon was also much quicker at updating the map while I was driving.

So... even if the TomTom car kit does help fix the speed issue, the maps are not accurate yet and the price is very steep when compared to an application that works just fine without the car kit. :P Of course TomTom probably released their app prematurely because of the pressure from other vendors but who knows. Right now I have both so after a few updates my opinions might change. LOL

[Europa]

Tom Tom + Car kit is a rip off IMO.
I'm going to pick up a stand alone Garmin at Wal-Mart tonight.

[KrakaJap]

Well that really all depends on how the iPhone apps handle map updates... if they're free then they will, by far, be much better than ANY standalone unit. :)

[eplchamps0304]

Is Tom Tom serious. The voice navigation stops your music when it comes on. This is so annoying. With navigon the music keeps playing in the background. Tom desperately needs the street signs that are displayed in navigon.

[djwindsor]

I beg to differ. Navigon is missing lots of components in their software. Where is the list of turn by turn instructions for one?? The voice instructions SUCK and are very limited. Signal holding is awful. I can go on and on. Tom Tom IMHO is far superior and at least they will stay committed to the NA market. Navigon packed their bags and abandoned most of their business here. Who is to say they won't do the same when they realize no one is buying their app. (or the numbers don't add up to justify making updates)

[Europa]

Well that really all depends on how the iPhone apps handle map updates... if they're free then they will, by far, be much better than ANY standalone unit. :)
That is a good point. The stand alones don't include free lifetime updates. Although, I think they include one map update depending on how old your current maps are.

[Tinman]

Maps are licensed. No app or stand alone unit will have free lifetime map updates, unless they own their own apps (and then they would suck). So it really doesn't matter if it's an app or a stand alone unit in that regard.



--
Mike

[eplchamps0304]

I beg to differ. Navigon is missing lots of components in their software. Where is the list of turn by turn instructions for one?? The voice instructions SUCK and are very limited. Signal holding is awful. I can go on and on. Tom Tom IMHO is far superior and at least they will stay committed to the NA market. Navigon packed their bags and abandoned most of their business here. Who is to say they won't do the same when they realize no one is buying their app. (or the numbers don't add up to justify making updates)

The gps signal problem is subjective. I have used the following gps apps on my phone (navigon,copilot,tomtom,igo,sygic) and have never had signal problems with any of them. I like the tomtom maps and routing better, but the lack of lane assistance, "your destination is on the left" etc prompt, Tomtom has absolutely no TTS, and no reality view. These are essential. I have never lost a gps signal on tomtom or navigon, never.

[KrakaJap]

Subjective is very true... to each his own I guess. For me, TomTom has dropped multiple times and the maps are completely wrong. Navigon has worked flawlessly. Until the TomTom car kit is released, I'm sticking with Navigon. But I also agree TomTom has a stronger backbone so they may end up winning in the end.

And as far as the maps go... all the standalone units are going to have to do something about the price of map updates. Especially with services like VZNavigator... far cheaper than having a standalone unit with up-to-date maps every year and in my experience was far more accurate as well (again subjective). So depending on what 3rd party maps TomTom (or anyone) uses and what other services they offer that bring in money... it's still possible to see free map updates for iPhone users. I doubt it :) but it IS possible.

[Tinman]

There is nothing different about the iPhone when it comes to licensing maps. I don't know why anyone would think the iPhone can somehow get around licensing issues. If you get a year of free updates it's no different than getting the same thing from a stand alone unit. But you can absolutely forget about getting lifetime updates from the likes of Navteq or TeleAtlas (without paying a huge upfront cost).


--
Mike

[Europa]

Ok, so if I go buy a Garmin nuvi tonight, and it doesn't come with the 2009 update, I can get one free update, which I can choose to do now, correct?

Will they just send this disk? http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2008/04/garmins_map_update_2009_releas.php

Obviously, I'll try to get one that has the 2009 map update already, but just in case they all have the 2008 maps, I'll need to update.

[Diablo25]

Ran across this Tom Tom promo video over at Engadget.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/22/tomtoms-iphone-car-kit-promo-video-is-enticing-but-still-no-me/

[KrakaJap]

Tinman... you honestly don't see the GPS vendors branching out to create/distribute their own maps??? That's just plain, horrible business planning. If they don't, then free apps such as Google Maps will only get better and more appealing leaving currently known GPS vendors in the dust. :) There ARE free maps out there: whether or not they're accurate is debatable. This is why companies like TomTom choose licensed maps over the free ones (obviously). So is it possible that map updates could be free? Again, yes, and no one will convince me otherwise. :) Why? Because they're available NOW (just not with major vendors)! LOL

I'm not talking about "getting around licensing issues" because that would be illegal... I'm talking about other alternatives. Alternatives that are getting better every day. Just think of what will happen in the GPS world once public broadband wireless becomes more widely available. APGS with turn-by-turn using free maps that are updated by the millions of drivers themselves... I could go on. My point is, TomTom, Garmin, Navigon, whomever must see this coming. If not, then they deserve to go under. :P

EDIT:
One thing I completely forgot about... TomTom "owns" TeleAtlas (the maker of their maps). So charging for map updates because of a 3rd party does not convince me. Also (and here's the real kicker), guess who else uses TeleAtlas for maps?....... Google Maps! So what exactly are we being charged for with these map updates? Merely road construction and traffic congestion data? LOL I can use my own eyes for that. :P The only reason I can see is the simple fact that TomTom, Garmin, etc. charge once for the device instead of charging a monthly service fee. The device will last you 5 years or longer and if you do not purchase map updates (or you receive them for free) then these companies have lost out on profit the entire time you use that device. So instead, they charge for the updates for that reason alone... it has little (if anything) to do with TeleAtlas. If you want proof just look at Google, Microsoft, and any cellular provider that offers GPS monthly service. If it truly were the forcing hand of TeleAtlas (and the like), then cellular customers would also be paying for these map updates and a hell of a lot more than $10-$15 a month for service.

[Europa]

Well I decided I want to get a handheld GPS for hiking instead of a car GPS, so I'm going with the Tom Tom app for that. Downloading it now.

[mdb4403]

i wonder why there is so much desire for the tom tom program. Ive now had the opportunity to try or buy sygic, igo, tom tom and Navigon. In terms of how they rank regardless of price i would rank them as follows:

1 Navigon
2. Igo
3. Tom tom
4. Sygic

The Navigon unit does a superb job of tracking your movements and giving directions. The Igo unit is a close second but on my phone (standard 3g) the tom tom and sygic programs lagged terribly. What I mean by that is your avatar on screen is always about a block behind the position of your vehicles. Sometimes it causes you to miss turns. I don't know what Navigon did that the other cant but there avatar tracks you almost perfectly and its distance to turn information is almost always spot on.

In terms of interfaces and POI's i will agree that Tom Tom has one of the nice interfaces. I don't know about the completeness of POI's on any of the units. They all seem to be about the same to me. Sometimes you hit what your looking for sometimes you don't. I will say this about Navigon and Tom Tom for that matter. They both allow you to navigate to someone in your contacts. So this is a tip. Before I open Navion all go to the Maps program and search for my destination. This is the most complete POI database out there. Once i find the location i simply hit the "add to contacts" button. I then open Navigon, go to my contacts, hit the newly added contact and im off. Never have to worrry about the POI's being out dated again. Kudo's to Navigon for an excellent program.

[mdb4403]

sorry about my spelling im rushing out the door to go to dinner and my wife is yelling at me in the background.

[Tinman]

Tinman... you honestly don't see the GPS vendors branching out to create/distribute their own maps??? That's just plain, horrible business planning. If they don't, then free apps such as Google Maps will only get better and more appealing leaving currently known GPS vendors in the dust. :) There ARE free maps out there: whether or not they're accurate is debatable. This is why companies like TomTom choose licensed maps over the free ones (obviously). So is it possible that map updates could be free? Again, yes, and no one will convince me otherwise. :) Why? Because they're available NOW (just not with major vendors)! LOL

I'm not talking about "getting around licensing issues" because that would be illegal... I'm talking about other alternatives. Alternatives that are getting better every day. Just think of what will happen in the GPS world once public broadband wireless becomes more widely available. APGS with turn-by-turn using free maps that are updated by the millions of drivers themselves... I could go on. My point is, TomTom, Garmin, Navigon, whomever must see this coming. If not, then they deserve to go under. :P

EDIT:
One thing I completely forgot about... TomTom "owns" TeleAtlas (the maker of their maps). So charging for map updates because of a 3rd party does not convince me. Also (and here's the real kicker), guess who else uses TeleAtlas for maps?....... Google Maps! So what exactly are we being charged for with these map updates? Merely road construction and traffic congestion data? LOL I can use my own eyes for that. :P The only reason I can see is the simple fact that TomTom, Garmin, etc. charge once for the device instead of charging a monthly service fee. The device will last you 5 years or longer and if you do not purchase map updates (or you receive them for free) then these companies have lost out on profit the entire time you use that device. So instead, they charge for the updates for that reason alone... it has little (if anything) to do with TeleAtlas. If you want proof just look at Google, Microsoft, and any cellular provider that offers GPS monthly service. If it truly were the forcing hand of TeleAtlas (and the like), then cellular customers would also be paying for these map updates and a hell of a lot more than $10-$15 a month for service.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on map updates, without understanding how they actually happen. It takes real money. That's one reason why no decent GPS vendor uses free maps.

Also, TomTom can't just give away TeleAtlas apps. It would destroy their relationship with TeleAtlas's other customers. Classic business suicide.

Moreover, GPS prices have fallen. They are not being kept artificially high due to map costs. Consumers are seeng lower prices and so free maps are not really a threat, especially considering the quality hit.




--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

I can't argue that GPS in general has gone down in price but this is the reason why we must all put more emphasis on the maps. GPS is very quickly becoming standard in just about everything. Most new cars come with GPS (either enabled or ready), in-dash stereo units with built in GPS, pretty much every modern cellphone has AGPS with a good selection of full GPS devices, tons of standalone units, and we're even starting to see GPS in digital cameras and camcorders! (granted the later don't use maps) :P This could very well be the reason for the drop in consumer costs for GPS devices but this is quickly becoming a double edged sword.

These "decent GPS vendors" is what's going to change first with companies like Google and Microsoft. True they may have the internal funding to back up their choice of free maps but that doesn't stop the ball from rolling here. These maps... even the free ones... are all coming from the same source. If anything, I would like to see map updates as a service fee that totals less than the average annual cost of an update.

I do, completely, understand the process of map updates. And I completely understand that any company simply cannot make a conscience decision to move backwards. That would be irrational :) But you cannot deny the fact that these free maps exist (some of which the same quality) and that they are growing. There's even talk of Google dropping TeleAtlas and using their now, almost complete, StreetView database and continuing with street updates on their own. So here are the facts:
1. free turn-by-turn is on its' way
2. the maps are accurate as they originated from the top map vendors

You may be correct in that TomTom's maps will never be "free" but if they don't drop the price significantly or figure out a different method of making profit then they are going to suffer. This much is certain. :)

[Tinman]

I can't argue that GPS in general has gone down in price but this is the reason why we must all put more emphasis on the maps.

Go for it. I haven't had any major problems with maps. Heck, I have a GPS from 2006, with no updates, that is still very much usable.

I am not interested in debating this further in this thread though I will state that in my opinion the thing that will help map updates the most is end-user-feedback, as automated as possible. But even this hasn't gone as smoothly as one might assume.



--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

Maps, for the most part, don't change... they're simply added to. And I agree, end-user feedback is the only good way to get true map updates as far as construction, conditions, congestion, etc. This would also reduce the cost of maps by reducing the workload on the vendor. :)

[ironlungakc]

So which one of the navigation apps does live traffic updates?

[djwindsor]

Ironically I can say that I have a GPS that was built in 2003 for my 2004 Toyota Prius. The maps are from 2005 (version 4.2). I live in the NY Metro area and have no need to update the maps. I don't even know why anyone would need to update the maps if they live in an area where there is no new road construction. I get along fine with my maps and I have no intentions of spending $250 for an update (that's right... that is what it costs!!). The only advantage I see to getting the updates is a revision to the POIs. However, if you have an iPhone with google maps why would you want to spend money on maps updates if you can google/search for a poi???

Lastly, there seems to be no true front runner for the iPhone favorite navigation APP. I've already posted my preference for Tom Tom and I think they will be the best in the long run. Navigon 1.0 was nice but I lost the signal too often during the week I tested it for it to be worthwhile. Its rerouting took forever. The Tom Tom was the closest thing to functioning like a stand alone PND. I really like it a lot. That's why I'm keeping it. I deleted Navigon. A waste of 1.2gig that I'd rather devote to some music.

[KrakaJap]

If ATT Navigator wasn't such a crappy application I would stick with that and pay per month for the traffic updates and accident reports. VZNavigator was excellent for that!

For POIs though... has anyone compared MapQuest with the built in Maps app?

[eplchamps0304]

If ATT Navigator wasn't such a crappy application I would stick with that and pay per month for the traffic updates and accident reports. VZNavigator was excellent for that!

For POIs though... has anyone compared MapQuest with the built in Maps app?

The built in maps app does not have any POI.

[KrakaJap]

haha I guess that answers my question. :) Unless I was thinking of Google Earth and not Maps.

[Tinman]

The built in maps app does not have any POI.

What? Maps app most certainly does have POI. And it's had them since day-one.

Enter a location, or let Maps locate you, and tap Pizza, gas station, whatever, in the search bar. Presto, POIs appear, with address and phone numbers too.



--
Mike

[eplchamps0304]

What? Maps app most certainly does have POI. And it's had them since day-one.

Enter a location, or let Maps locate you, and tap Pizza, gas station, whatever, in the search bar. Presto, POIs appear, with address and phone numbers too.



--
Mike

There is no where for you to tap "pizza" in the maps app. You have to type pizza in the search bar. It searches the web for them, it's not built into the app. Gps devices have built in databases of points of interest. You tap on one category and go to the next, or you can search the database.

[pradley]

My problem with these apps is that they are useless if you have a bad phone signal. We just drove back and forth to Canada (near Montreal) and the signal on the NYThruway was unsteady and at times disappeared altogether. No matter what you hear, and bear in mind that I have both the Navigon and G-maps East (which I do not recommend) installed, a standalone device is for the moment much more reliable - I bought a Navigon a year ago and it works just fine. Until there is a better phone-data signal, I will find it hard to rely on any iphone gps.

[eplchamps0304]

My problem with these apps is that they are useless if you have a bad phone signal. We just drove back and forth to Canada (near Montreal) and the signal on the NYThruway was unsteady and at times disappeared altogether. No matter what you hear, and bear in mind that I have both the Navigon and G-maps East (which I do not recommend) installed, a standalone device is for the moment much more reliable - I bought a Navigon a year ago and it works just fine. Until there is a better phone-data signal, I will find it hard to rely on any iphone gps.

Data is not required to use gps apps. You need a good gps signal. Personally I have used all the gps apps available and have never lost a signal, ever.

[pradley]

Thanks for the info, I thought that the phone triangulated to get position, are you saying that it has a satellite chip? I did not think it did. In any case, you are very lucky if you have never lost a gps signal: I have lost it with the built-in in one car, with the Navigon in another, and with the built-in in a Hertz rental. You should try the Northway between Albany NY and Canada, I guarantee you will lose the signal.

[KrakaJap]

Data is not required to use gps apps. You need a good gps signal. Personally I have used all the gps apps available and have never lost a signal, ever.

AGPS confuses me a little... i hear people say that it requires a data connection (such as cellular) and other people say it doesn't. My personal experience is that I've been out with no data signal at all and I have yet to get a GPS app to work (waited up to 45 minutes in a wide open field). However, the second I receive a data signal my GPS loads up in just a couple seconds.

If a good signal is required and I couldn't get a good signal on a clear day with no trees or buildings for miles... what exactly provides a "good" signal? :P Under the same conditions, my standalone units pick up a signal quicker than anything. So... if my standalone's are getting an excellent signal, one would assume that this is an optimal condition even for AGPS.

Does this not depend entirely on how the AGPS chip is implemented in a device? If this is the case, then I believe the iPhone does "require" a data connection.

EDIT: of course there are reviews such as this... http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/10/using-the-iphones-gps-without-a-network-connection.ars that make me wonder again but if you look at the image, it DOES have a network connection (or cellular data connection) even though they say it doesn't. Maybe they posted the wrong image? :)

[KrakaJap]

There is no where for you to tap "pizza" in the maps app. You have to type pizza in the search bar. It searches the web for them, it's not built into the app. Gps devices have built in databases of points of interest. You tap on one category and go to the next, or you can search the database.

Tap or type? If I type in Pizza it comes up with local spots that match that keyword.

crap: sorry for the double post

[Tinman]

There is no where for you to tap "pizza" in the maps app. You have to type pizza in the search bar.

Don't know if you are confused or not, but that's the way Maps works. Of course you type in the search bar; same as you do when looking for an address. And the search bar is indeed within the Maps app.


It searches the web for them, it's not built into the app. Gps devices have built in databases of points of interest. You tap on one category and go to the next, or you can search the database.Ya' think? lol 'Net based POIs can be an advantage over static POIs that get can out of date.

And I think most here understand how the Maps app works (vie 'Net). Maps has no maps either, since they come from the 'Net too. Ditto for any 'Net-based mapping solution, such as MapQuest. Regardless, Maps does indeed have POIs.



--
Mike

[Tinman]

Thanks for the info, I thought that the phone triangulated to get position, are you saying that it has a satellite chip? I did not think it did.

The iPhone 3G and 3GS do indeed have bona fide built-in GPS. Only the original iPhone does not.



--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

The iPhone 3G and 3GS do indeed have bona fide built-in GPS. Only the original iPhone does not.

--
Mike

Depends on what you mean by "bona fide". The iPhone 3G/3GS has AGPS and not fully independent GPS. Of course I say "fully independent" very loosely here. :) But regardless of how the iPhone receives or doesn't receive communication directly from the sat, AGPS is weaker by definition.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Depends on what you mean by "bona fide". The iPhone 3G/3GS has AGPS and not fully independent GPS. Of course I say "fully independent" very loosely here. :) But regardless of how the iPhone receives or doesn't receive communication directly from the sat, AGPS is weaker by definition.



I disagree. From what I'm reading, A-GPS is a improvement over GPS.

[Tinman]

Depends on what you mean by "bona fide". The iPhone 3G/3GS has AGPS and not fully independent GPS. Of course I say "fully independent" very loosely here. :) But regardless of how the iPhone receives or doesn't receive communication directly from the sat, AGPS is weaker by definition.

Wrong. It is not "weaker by definition." You have overlooked the various levels of aGPS, and the fact that aGPS can in fact be a superset of standard GPS. Only in units without a true GPS chipset is aGPS inferior. The iPhone 3G/3GS is not one of those units.

Not only does the iPhone use a bona fide GPS chipset it is the Infineon Hammerhead II. This same chipset is used in some of TomTom's own PND GPS units.

In the case of the 3G/3GS aGPS enhances the built-in GPS.

Here's why AGPS, combined with true GPS, is better:

1.) Uses the cell network to get faster GPS locks.

2.) Works better indoors.

3.) Allows city-level granularity until the GPS locks on.

4.) Works well with just two sats locked in.

And more...

If the iPhone didn't have a true GPS chipset it would not work outside of cell range, which of course it does.

There are various levels of aGPS that the iPhone supports. But suffice to say it supports aGPS Standalone which is usually all you get with standard GPS.


BTW: The original iPhone, as mandated in the US due to e911, used aGPS. But that was network-based aGPS which is far different than the aGPS used by the 3G/3GS. Most articles referencing aGPS in a negative light are referring to network-based aGPS. Big difference.



--
Mike

[eplchamps0304]

I disagree. From what I'm reading, A-GPS is a improvement over GPS.

+1. The iPhone has a gps chip just like any other gps device. In addition to that it uses the towers to assist in locating you, thus AGps.

[KrakaJap]

Well from my own experience it has never been an improvement over GPS unless I had a good strong cellular signal. Maybe I've always purchased faulty cellphones? I don't know but I still have yet to get the iPhone to pick up a GPS location without a data connection.

And I also feel that adding another party into a previously 2 way communication does not make it better. That only increases your point of failure. What if the network is congested or you have not used your GPS for a while or your cell network goes down entirely? That doesn't sound stronger to me. :P Now if I could get a GPS location without data then yes I agree that would be better. Same concept as the landline phone network... one point fails, default to another and maintain a connection. As far as I know the iPhone doesn't have a setting to help with this issue either... at least none that I've found.

[Tinman]

Well from my own experience it has never been an improvement over GPS unless I had a good strong cellular signal. Maybe I've always purchased faulty cellphones? I don't know but I still have yet to get the iPhone to pick up a GPS location without a data connection.

And I also feel that adding another party into a previously 2 way communication does not make it better. That only increases your point of failure. What if the network is congested or you have not used your GPS for a while or your cell network goes down entirely? That doesn't sound stronger to me. :P Now if I could get a GPS location without data then yes I agree that would be better. Same concept as the landline phone network... one point fails, default to another and maintain a connection. As far as I know the iPhone doesn't have a setting to help with this issue either... at least none that I've found.

Apps on the iPhone such as TomTom don't even use the network. The fact remains that the iPhone 3G/3Gs have a true GPS chipset, that can work in standalone mode.

Ironically, what you described above directly contradicts your earlier comment: your result was better due to aGPS, not worse.

And if you can't get GPS to work at all without network access you are either using a network-based app, have a defective phone, or are blocking the antenna with a case or some other means.


--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

It doesn't contradict anything... it shows that I was only able to get a signal within a data connection. I never said I prefer AGPS.

What I'm saying is that if AGPS on the iPhone is supposed to work the way you describe... using assistance in areas with weak sat signals and direct communication when it can or with apps that only use direct communication... then that's great but I have yet to experience it. :)

Why does the TomTom app need a car kit that contains another GPS chip to augment the iPhone if the iPhone has a full featured GPS chip already? And don't go all "high blood preasure" on me here... :P I'm asking this because I really want to know. To me it seems like if the GPS chip in the iPhone was the same as in a standalone then there would be no need for the augment.

[Tinman]

Enough already. You made a statement. It was incorrect. You were corrected. No biggie. It's not the end of the world here.



--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

??? I never said it was? :)

My question still stands. I'm not asking it to be rude, I'm asking it because I want to know. And my statement wasn't incorrect, it was an opinion. I agree that it was based on my not knowing how the iPhone's AGPS worked but you have to realize I have not used an AGPS device that does not need a data connection which, otherwise, would be great if you are correct about the iPhone and how AGPS is currently being used with a full GPS chipset.

I apologize for the blood pressure remark :) but seriously... if you don't want to explain can you provide a link perhaps?

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

"But regardless of how the iPhone receives or doesn't receive communication directly from the sat, AGPS is weaker by definition."

I guess it didn't sound like an opinion...

[KrakaJap]

yes... my opinion... agps (what I'm accustomed to) using an intermediary. assuming it must use that intermediary, if it went down for whatever reason then it is weaker. :) gps (again basing agps on what I've used) is also not tied down to a specific carrier.

I guess I forgot to add "in my opinion" :P

[Tinman]

"But regardless of how the iPhone receives or doesn't receive communication directly from the sat, AGPS is weaker by definition."

I guess it didn't sound like an opinion...

That would be what I was referring to. ;)



--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

Well it would be pointless to go back and make it clearer... that might make the rest of the thread confusing. :P

[Tinman]

yes... my opinion... agps (what I'm accustomed to) using an intermediary. assuming it must use that intermediary, if it went down for whatever reason then it is weaker. :) gps (again basing agps on what I've used) is also not tied down to a specific carrier.

I guess I forgot to add "in my opinion" :P

Adding "in my opinion" to "by definition" doesn't actually work. ;)

I've already told you the exact chipset that is in the iPhone. Google it if you want more info. It doesn't need a cell connection, but will use one for a faster lock.

I have Navigon. I have the SIM out of my iPhone 3GS, and WiFi is off. I am indoors. Loaded Navigon and it locked on in less than 10 seconds. Zero cell service, no WiFi. I don't know how to make this any clearer for you, but there you have it. Pic and all.

http://www.everythingicafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5398&stc=1&d=1251236198




--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

Ok... thanks... now my next question is why mine doesn't seem to be working that way. My iPhone is brand new but I know that doesn't necessarily mean it's not faulty.

Of course I'm still curious as to why TomTom would need a separate chip in their car kit if the iPhone's works just fine. :) (if not to simply charge customers more money)

[Tinman]

Ok... thanks... now my next question is why mine doesn't seem to be working that way. My iPhone is brand new but I know that doesn't necessarily mean it's not faulty.

Of course I'm still curious as to why TomTom would need a separate chip in their car kit if the iPhone's works just fine. :) (if not to simply charge customers more money)

TomTom doesn't need it, as evidenced by the fact that the TomTom iPhone app is available right now but the car cradle is not. If it really needed it do you think the app would have been approved for sale in the app store? Not very likely. Accordingly few app store reviews are complaining about that aspect (mostly other complaints). Heck, this very thread is about the TomTom app and I don't see the people who bought it screaming that it does not work.

Moreover, it's quite possible that the car cradle project was originally started when all that was out was the iPhone V1 and Touch. Indeed there are rumors that the cradle will work with those devices, or perhaps one of them.

As for why yours is not working, I listed possible reasons in a previous response.



--
Mike

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

The two biggest assets for me regarding TomTom's car cradle would be the charging capability and the integrated speaker.

[jjvaldez]

I think that for this is what you prefer.. I am a HUGE navigon fan.... i had a job that required me to drive a lot, i had a tom tom , garmin and for ME i liked the navigon better, so i got the Navigon app for the iphone and it is what i expected, even though i prefer the stand alone and that is what i will stick with, to tell the truth i prefer the google maps app that came with the phone......

[KrakaJap]

"... why TomTom would need a separate chip in their car kit..." that one definitely cannot be misunderstood. Clearly I was not talking about the TomTom app, but the car kit. But nevermind, I'll get my answers from somewhere else less condescending :)

Thanks anyway though.

The other information about AGPS was quite useful.

[eplchamps0304]

Why are some of you taking this topic personal?

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Why are some of you taking this topic personal?

What in the ever-lovin' hell do you mean?!?! :ok:ok:dft010:smiling:dft012:wink

[Tinman]

"... why TomTom would need a separate chip in their car kit..." that one definitely cannot be misunderstood. Clearly I was not talking about the TomTom app, but the car kit. But nevermind, I'll get my answers from somewhere else less condescending :)

Thanks anyway though.

The other information about AGPS was quite useful.

"Clearly I was not talking about the TomTom app, but the car kit?"

You must think we are idiots to buy that kind of nonsense; or English is not your first language.


--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

Are TomTom not is being the name of company and the app just? LOL

I guess got me there you. ;)

Listen, you've been condescending since your second post on this thread and not just to me, I made a mistake (2 actually) and I appologized for one of them. Then you suggested we move on and I DID try but seriously... it's very difficult to communicate anything here if the reply is just going to be berating. All I want to do is discuss and learn as much as possible about the TomTom app, other options, and the car kit when it is released.

And English just so happens to be my first language. :)

[djwindsor]

I have a feeling the Tom Tom cradle is merely available for the placebo effect of better GPS signal strength. I do like the fact that it will charge the phone, mount the phone for optimal viewing and have audio output for the iPod.

Interesting though is in Tom Tom's literature they tout the fact that their cradle will augment the iPhone GPS signal. From a technical standpoint I'm wondering how.

[KrakaJap]

That would be disappointing... their press is making it sound like the experience is so much better with the kit than without it.

Taking my iPhone to the Apple store today... wish me luck! LOL
The closest one near me seems to be employed by people who don't care about customer service.

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Well, the voice volume should definitely be better.

[Tinman]

Are TomTom not is being the name of company and the app just? LOL

I guess got me there you. ;)

Listen, you've been condescending since your second post on this thread and not just to me, I made a mistake (2 actually) and I appologized for one of them. Then you suggested we move on and I DID try but seriously... it's very difficult to communicate anything here if the reply is just going to be berating.

Look, this is the Internet. If you post something and it's incorrect or even just an opinion, expect to get respones. Don't take everything so personally. Many other forums on the 'Net are much more aggressive than this place.

As for the TomTom cradle, this is what you wrote:

"Of course I'm still curious as to why TomTom would need a separate chip in their car kit if the iPhone's works just fine."

There is no way you couldn't have meant the TomTom app too since you mentioned the iPhone and the car kit. It's all centered around the TomTom app, and the car kit GPS is useless without it.

I took the time to show you that Navigon and other GPS apps can indeed work without network support. Then you start with this personal crap.

Again, there is no need to get or take anything personally. Personal would be name calling, ad hominem attacks, etc. None of that is happening here at all.




--
Mike

[Tinman]

OK I am trying out TomTom. I haven't bought it, mainly since I have Navigon and to be the Navigon reviews seemed a bit better. I have my friend's 3GS with TomTom on it, as I'll be jb'ing it and installing a few Cydia apps. So I don't have too much time to spend with it.

But what I noticed right off the bat that irked me was that touching the screen while in nav mode doesn't move or zoom the map: it only brings up the menu. I don't like that--I often like to move around to see what's up ahead, or visually see how far I have to go. And having to use the, rather small, zoom buttons didn't seem to work too well, they almost seemed to change the 3D angle more than zoom in/out.

Does anyone know if there is a way to not have the menu pop up when you touch the screen, but rather allow you to move around the map (without going into a different map mode)?


--
Mike

[aknightstale41]

This probably won't be an accurate comparison Mike, because you already purchased the Nav app, subconsciously the mind will go out of it's way to justify buying it,...unless of course you have an excess of denaros that you don't mind throwing around... then all bets are off. :dft011:wicked_smile

[macgirl]

But what I noticed right off the bat that irked me was that touching the screen while in nav mode doesn't move or zoom the map: it only brings up the menu. I don't like that--I often like to move around to see what's up ahead, or visually see how far I have to go. And having to use the, rather small, zoom buttons didn't seem to work too well, they almost seemed to change the 3D angle more than zoom in/out.

Does anyone know if there is a way to not have the menu pop up when you touch the screen, but rather allow you to move around the map (without going into a different map mode)?


I have the TomTom app too. AFAIK, there's no way to change this behavior. I understand how this can be irritating, though it's the way the standalone GPS units I've had (all TomTom ones, my husband has a Garmin) work as well – touching the map view during navigation always brings up the menu. So far, this is also how the Sygic MobileMaps and iGO My Way apps work as well. Navigon is the only one out of the bunch that's different in this respect at the moment - you picked the right one to buy given what you want!

[Tinman]

This probably won't be an accurate comparison Mike, because you already purchased the Nav app, subconsciously the mind will go out of it's way to justify buying it,...unless of course you have an excess of denaros that you don't mind throwing around... then all bets are off. :dft011:wicked_smile

Hmmm, I was just about to post how much better TomTom is!

JK, you are more than likely right. ;)


--
Mike

[KrakaJap]

There is no way you couldn't have meant the TomTom app too since you mentioned the iPhone and the car kit. It's all centered around the TomTom app, and the car kit GPS is useless without it.

Of course I'm still curious as to why TomTom would need a separate chip in their car kit if the iPhone's works just fine... as in the iPhone's GPS chip. I understand that the app itself does not require it unless you're using the iPod (assuming the car kit works with the iPod as the rumors go). They obviously included the chip for a reason and are not mentioning anything about the iPod as of yet. I'm asking for an opinion of the chip in the kit disregarding "everything" as far as the TomTom app. What I wrote made perfect sense to me and I apologize if it is still unclear.

Again, there is no need to get or take anything personally. Personal would be name calling, ad hominem attacks, etc.

sure...

There is nothing different about the iPhone when it comes to licensing maps. I don't know why anyone would think the iPhone can somehow get around licensing issues. If you get a year of free updates it's no different than getting the same thing from a stand alone unit. But you can absolutely forget about getting lifetime updates from the likes of Navteq or TeleAtlas (without paying a huge upfront cost).

Ya' think? lol 'Net based POIs can be an advantage over static POIs that get can out of date.

And I think most here understand how the Maps app works (vie 'Net). Maps has no maps either, since they come from the 'Net too. Ditto for any 'Net-based mapping solution, such as MapQuest. Regardless, Maps does indeed have POIs.

You must think we are idiots to buy that kind of nonsense; or English is not your first language.

...None of that is happening here at all.

Of course not ;)

Anyway... I'm not going to argue this openly anymore. It's a waste of time and space. If you still believe I'm wrong, please private message me instead. :P

As per the map "touching" issue, this might be something worth submitting as a suggestion to TomTom because it would be a very useful feature. I'm not too fond of the small zoom in/out icons of Navigon, especially while driving but it is nice to have. The only standalone unit I've used that had this feature was the Mio 550. I believe VZNavigator had it as well but I cannot remember if ATT Navigator had it (I very quickly dropped that service and removed the app). I try to use both TomTom and Navigon daily but I'm still leaning towards Navigon and find myself loading it first before remembering that I'm also trying to give TomTom a fair shake.

I wish TomTom would have added a heads-up projector to their car kit instead of the added GPS chip. But of course that might have detoured people from purchasing their app and going with a lower priced app instead.

[eplchamps0304]

Unless the tomtom car kit works with the iPod touch, I think it's just a gimmick to get at peoples money. From my experience with all the gps apps, there is no need for an external gps device. The iPhone works just fine on it's own.

[pradley]

I own the Navigon app which works as expected, though I too wish it provided for street names when indicating a turn (it does, BTW, give the main highway when that is the object of the turn). What I sorely miss, however, is a preview of the route in text form (the simulation only shows the destination point and it is also very slow): does anyone know if Navigon is planning to add this feature?

[KrakaJap]

Navigon support says full TTS is on the way... but of course there's no indication as to when (specifically). :/

[pradley]

Thanks, yes, I saw that, what I was asking (obviously not clearly enough) was whether Navigon intends to add a feature preview where I could see in text form (onscreen) a plan of the route (just as you get with the route description in Gmaps).

[KrakaJap]

Like a route itinerary? I wasn't even aware that Navigon did not have that already. Not sure how I missed that one since I like to read my route before I begin driving. :)

[eplchamps0304]

Pretty soon since it's been submitted to apple for approval.

[pradley]

No, it doesn't have that, it has what it likes to call "simulation", but as I am sure you have already noted, this gives only a picture of the final destination with a very slow-moving car.

[KrakaJap]

Interesting... glad to hear it's at least out there waiting. That would definitely be a point against Navigon.

[Cjvdh]

What this app basically turns your phone into a GPS ?

[KrakaJap]

Not basically... it does. :)

[charles03]

Hey guys, doing some work with TomTom related to this app and figured I may be able to help/clear up some things.

To be clear, there is no NEED for the car kit. The app is designed specifically to work with the existing GPS located in the iPhone, which is one reason the app was released prior to the car kit. This does not however mean the car kit is without its advantages. The chip included in the car kit is a higher grade chip, which enhances the overall performance to that of a true stand alone navigation device. As mentioned, the other features like being a positionable mount, charger, external speaker, etc also add to the improved functionality. So it is not a requirement by any stretch, just an enhancement.

Well most have probably already seen it, TomTom has put up some additional info on their iPhone page at iphone.tomtom.com. If there are any other general question, I am happy to give them a crack.

[eplchamps0304]

If the car kit cost about the same as a stand alone unit, it would be asanine to buy it. If you can't use the gps on the phone alone the what's the point of having gps on the phone. The tomtom kit is however a great fit for iPod touches and first gen iPhone.

[damstr]

I'm waiting for the car kit because the GPS built into the phone can be off a couple streets and sometimes it doesn't give me my exact position but rather a 1 mile radius which is pretty useless. IMO

Also if I'm traveling south bound on a highway and I it navigate to where I'm currently at it sometimes thinks I'm going north bound or vice versa.

[Europa]

If the car kit cost about the same as a stand alone unit, it would be asanine to buy it. If you can't use the gps on the phone alone the what's the point of having gps on the phone. The tomtom kit is however a great fit for iPod touches and first gen iPhone.
I love not having to carry a camera, an iPod, a video camera, or a stand alone GPS. I have the app and it works just fine without the car kit. I already have an iPhone mount.

[eplchamps0304]

If you results are that bad then maybe you need to exchange your phone for a new one. My gps is as accurate as can be %99 of the time. If my gps was as off as you described I would get it exchanged and not spend more money on a bad product.

[eplchamps0304]

I love not having to carry a camera, an iPod, a video camera, or a stand alone GPS. I have the app and it works just fine without the car kit. I already have an iPhone mount.

I wouldn't even consider the iPhone a decent camera, it's a play thing at best. My point is the iPhone is not comparable to the most basic camcorder. The camera on the other hand is very decent in bright conditions.

[KrakaJap]

Am I imagining this or does Navigon seem to "appear" more accurate by predicting your location while in route? When I'm going about 15mph or faster and come to a 4 way stop, Navigon will show my position as going past the stop just slightly and then reposition me back where I should be.

[eplchamps0304]

My navigon does not do that, however my google map does sometimes.

[KrakaJap]

I wouldn't even consider the iPhone a decent camera, it's a play thing at best. My point is the iPhone is not comparable to the most basic camcorder. The camera on the other hand is very decent in bright conditions.

This holds true for almost all digital cameras. It is extremely difficult to get great quality pictures indoors or in low light conditions. In photography it's all about lighting :) I've seen many 3.2mp cameras produce quality pictures you would swear came from a more expensive camera. The only time megapixels play a significant role is when you go to print the picture or decide you want to enlarge it.

The video recording is alright but again in only the right conditions and as long as you're not moving around a lot. :)

[Europa]

It works just fine for me. The best camera is the one that's always with you.

[KrakaJap]

http://www.svmedia.net/images/ip1.jpg

http://www.svmedia.net/images/ip2.jpg

from the iPhone with no filters or post processing :)

sorry for derailing the topic. Any new word on the car kit?

[Europa]

Call me crazy, but those don't look like pictures from a "play thing".
Thanks Kraka

eplchamps, do you have a 3GS? You should check out the 3GS screenshot thread.

[eplchamps0304]

I have a 3gs and I like the camera.

[eplchamps0304]

Call me crazy, but those don't look like pictures from a "play thing".
Thanks Kraka

eplchamps, do you have a 3GS? You should check out the 3GS screenshot thread.

I was refering to the video recording quality as a play thing.

[KrakaJap]

Compared to all the other video recording cellphones I've had, though, the iPhone does well. But you're right it's definitely something more for convenience than quality. Not quite there yet as a replacement device. :P

[Tinman]

As Europa said, the best device is the one you have with you. I rarely have a digicam with me anymore, let alone a video recorder (and the 3GS seems to compare well with digital cameras--it's not meant to replace a dedicated video recorder).

But this photo stuff is way off topic.

As for TomTom, I used it for a couple days and so far do seem to prefer Navigon over it. Though to be frank I'm not sure either are worth it, when compared to the prices of stand-alone units.

It comes back to the always having it with you thing. I like that and also found it was a bit too dangerous to use the Maps app for navigating. Too much screen time needed.



--
Mike

[pradley]

You are either a photographer or you aren't. These phone cameras are the equivalent of snapshot cameras: they do not take good pictures, but are another example of what another commenter on another site referred to as "crapification". The new standard is not high or even good quality, but adequacy: if the phone takes even a poor picture, at least it took one, and that's adequate. But not for me. I want pictures that are good to look at and that I can manipulate. You want to have the camera with you always, but why? It's what I call the "Linus" syndrome, namely "I must have everything with me always". AND TO GET BACK ON TOPIC: I own the Navigon app and also G-map US east: I think the latter is poor, while Navigon works fine and will be much better for my purposes when it includes a text preview of the route.

[eplchamps0304]

I have both navigon and tomtom on my phone. I really prefer navigon. Tomtom does not have lane guidiance which is important to me. I like the way navigon shows you a graphic of which lanes to be in. Also tomtom does not display highway signs, I was suprised at this discovery.

[KrakaJap]

Pradley: a good photo is really subjective though. So far the iPhone has allowed me to take surprisingly "good" photos. :) they're not the best by any means but for a camera phone they're better than most. The samsung omnia also took very good photos.

Tinman: having a device I can take with me is definitely a plus and having an all-in-one device just makes it that much better. Compromises are definitely a factor but take geocaching for example... geocache and motionx gps are excellent apps for this and I've even used navigon for cache positioning on occasion (mostly for accuracy measuring).

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

At least my crapified iPhone 3GS camera allows me to immediately upload to YouTube if I wish, an option I've taken advantage of several times. Sometimes it's just about convenience.

[eplchamps0304]

Back to TomTom please

[eplchamps0304]

Img_0064.jpg

[djwindsor]

I have both navigon and tomtom on my phone. I really prefer navigon. Tomtom does not have lane guidiance which is important to me. I like the way navigon shows you a graphic of which lanes to be in. Also tomtom does not display highway signs, I was suprised at this discovery.

I found out that Navigon doesn't have a route summary. How dumb is that? I have both and I prefer Tom Tom. I love the iQ routing. Very accurate and it gets you there in mysterious ways (i.e. streets you'd never consider utilizing based on time of day). IMHO, Tom Tom will add some really nifty updates soon that will blow away Navigon. DOn't forget... Navigon abandoned the US market with their PNDs. What's to say they don't do the same with their APP software.

[eplchamps0304]

I found out that Navigon doesn't have a route summary. How dumb is that? I have both and I prefer Tom Tom. I love the iQ routing. Very accurate and it gets you there in mysterious ways (i.e. streets you'd never consider utilizing based on time of day). IMHO, Tom Tom will add some really nifty updates soon that will blow away Navigon. DOn't forget... Navigon abandoned the US market with their PNDs. What's to say they don't do the same with their APP software.

Navigons next update, I think will add route summary. Tomtom lacks any TTS. Navigon will speak the names of highway which is very useful. I hope tomtom comes with an update soon, but judging by how they have dragged their feet so far, I think we are in for a long wait. The navigon update is due any day now.

[ox-boy]

When receiving a text when using TomTom and you press 'View text'. Is the only way to get back to the navigation screen by going back to the home page and re-launching the app???

Is there a way to view the text and go straight back to the navigation screen?

[KrakaJap]

Well this sucks (just a little): http://www.intomobile.com/2009/09/03/tomtom-iphone-gps-car-kit-delayed-until-october.html

With the performance of Navigon, I'm not sure sure I believe TomTom's claims as to their 2 part solution. Obviously the app "can" perform better, it just seems like they've spent less time on the app than the car kit. That said, I would expect their car kit to be upwards of $100 or more ($200+ for the 2 part solution). So hopefully this car kit will do everything but make you bacon and eggs for breakfast. :P

So depending on the performance of the car kit, my opinion would be if you need a device you can take with you anywhere, get Navigon... otherwise hold out for TomTom's car kit (and its' reviews).

BTW... has anyone here tested CoPilot Live? For a $35 solution it claims some interesting features such as predictive guidance in tunnels, auto day/night modes, and 5 day weather forecast (not sure if it's live in 3d view).

[eplchamps0304]

According to TomTom the iphone gps is not very capable, but from most peoples experiences it is. So TomTom is in effect saying that the iphone is a crappy GPS device, and apple is cool with this. Very strange.

[eplchamps0304]

..by the way the TomTom dock has been officially delayed till the end of october.

[KrakaJap]

That is what the link I provided is for. :P An article about the delay.

FYI... MMS on Sept. 25th (official apparently).
http://www.pcworld.com/article/171425/atandt_sets_the_date_for_iphone_mms_whoopee.html

Looks to be a software update so I'm assuming we're to expect the next iPhone update for this. :)

[KrakaJap]

Navigon's soon-to-be-released car kit! :)

http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=10554

Nothing more than a mount but still pretty cool!

[djwindsor]

Navigon's soon-to-be-released car kit! :)

http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=10554

Nothing more than a mount but still pretty cool!

The price certainly isn't cool. It is going to be $55. If you're going to spend that kind of money might as well buy the Tom Tom mount and get an external speaker, enhanced GPS etc. The Navigon unit will also not hold an iPhone in its case. I don't know about you, but I have a feeling most people have their iPhones in a protective case. I am not sure if the TT mount will allow placement with an iPhone that has a case either.

[kimo]

I look at the advantages of the two:

Navigon
1. a mount

TomTom
1. a mount
2. has additional gps chip
3. provides bluetooth hands free with mic and speaker
4. charges your Iphone
5. has auxiliary output for headunit with auxiliary input.

I would have to go with the TomTom.
:dft003:coolkid

[KrakaJap]

I can't actually see them charging that much for just a mount though and the price still isn't "official" yet so there is still hope it wil be cheaper. Also, I think it's safe to say the tomtom car kit will be more than twice the price of navigon's car kit considering the added features. Won't know for certain until tomtom's kit is out but a cheaper app plus mount might still be better than the more expensive solution. And of course it still might release with and added gps enhancement as well which could very well have been their reference when quoting $55 usd.

Then again there are other mounts out there that sell for around $30 to $40 so who knows. I can personally live without the integrated charger. In either kit you're going to have a cable stringing down from your iPhone. Even more with tomtom's kit if you include the sound and don't have an iPhone integration cable for your stereo that connects only through the dock. In my case I would have one cable less with navigon's kit. More cables is more annoying in my opinion :)

My car has built in bluetooth as well so that's not much of a seller for me on the tomtom car kit. Of course I'll still probably purchase it to give it a shot... unless it gets incredibly horrible reviews.

[KrakaJap]

Navigon update is out with TTS! Should be interesting.

EDIT: So far the TTS works great! However, it's a little annoying that the voice says "in 1 miles" or "in .5 miles" (plural) instead of mile (singular). :P haha oh well, can't be too picky I guess.

[charles03]

According to TomTom the iphone gps is not very capable, but from most peoples experiences it is. So TomTom is in effect saying that the iphone is a crappy GPS device, and apple is cool with this. Very strange.

It's not that TomTom is saying the internal chip is bad, but rather that there is room for enhancement. The app is design specifically to work well with the internal GPS chip. With the car kit however, the performance is boosted to that of a purpose built PND. Here is the official response to if the car kit is needed (for proper performance).

13. Do I need the car kit that is ‘coming soon’ for the app to work?No, you don’t need the car kit for the TomTom app to work on your iPhone. The app already works very well on its own. The car kit does provide several compelling features to maximize the experience of using your iPhone in the car. The car kit enhances the GPS performance which will be especially useful in areas where GPS reception is limited, i.e. when driving through a city with high buildings or through forests. You can also benefit from the other great functionalities offered by the car kit to make driving and navigating enjoyable and safe.
There is also an response in the same FAQ(http://iphone.tomtom.com/en-us/faq.html) about the delay to October, however that has been pretty well covered.


In reference to TTS and other features found on some stand alone TomToms, here is the official response:

TomTom is is continuing to incorporate new innovations and technologies to the iPhone app and will release information about new services/features as soon they become available.

[charles03]

More new info straight from the iTunes page:

On 17 August 2009 TomTom launched its firstnavigationsolution for iPhone and it’s been very well received.

With the launch of the TomTom app v1., the aim was to introduce a trustworthy navigation solution that makes the most innovative technology simple to use.

The ultimate goal is to add as many of the features and technologies that TomTom is renowned for as possible to the TomTom app.

TomTom is also conscious of the feedback that users give through iTunesand regards this as valuable input to making the TomTom app better and better.

TomTom will launch several updates by the end of 2009 that will include improvements on the general performance of the app, as well as additional features and technologies.

All of the updates that TomTom will launch in 2009 will be free to customers that have bought the TomTom app before the update release!