Car Companies Wanting $34 Billion

[ravman]

Watcha guys think about the car companies wanting this $34 billion loan?

I personally believe that the companies should be declared bankrupt, their union agreements voided and then the $34 billion should be used to get the companies back up and running, WITHOUT any union interference.

Just my 5 cents worth.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081204/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos

Guess I should fly to Washington in my private and jet and ask for a few billion. I could do with an Aston Martin and Bugatti Veyron.

[kenneth]

Im sure they will file bankruptcy after they get the money anyway. this way they relieve all of there share holders stock prices and they wont lose money also they wont have to cover any car warranties.

[Hayesimus]

don't these car companies go through this every so many years? seems like one of them is always on the verge of collapse.

[aknightstale41]

^ yes it seems they do go through this cycle every few years...its going to be a very interesting next couple of years when the auto makers roll out their "Green models", Honda has the "Hydrogen fuel cell" coming out in 09 and Chevy has the "electric Volt" coming in 2010. I see people buying these in droves, making the oil companies cringe.

[mittenman]

Hooray for unions...........:foot:

[The Apple]

This is a hard topic to discuss. If they don't get bailed out and they shut down alot of plants, people lose jobs. If they do get bailed out, we end up paying them with our taxes. We already gave them their trillions while we paid for our vehicles, now we have to pay them more?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTFF!?!?!? If it would not hurt alot of the lower scale employees, and everyday people who have stock in them,I would say let them go bankrupt! Let the politicians who get alot of money from them, and the executives who have been living high on the hog burn. I hate to see people in this situation, but I also hate them expecting people to pay higher taxes as a result of their bad business habits.

Most likely the biggest purchase you make in your live is for your morgtage. The lenders who deal with that requested and received bailout. The second biggest purchase most people make is their vehicle. Now the car manufacturers are requesting bailout. Who is next if the trend continues???? Insurance??? Pharmaceuticals???

I gotta go, I am gonna go to Washington to request MY bailout. Oh wait.......they are causing my financial problems so they are probably not interested in bailing me out!

[mittenman]

This is a hard topic to discuss. If they don't get bailed out and they shut down alot of plants, people lose jobs. If they do get bailed out, we end up paying them with our taxes. We already gave them their trillions while we paid for our vehicles, now we have to pay them more?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTFF!?!?!? If it would not hurt alot of the lower scale employees, and everyday people who have stock in them,I would say let them go bankrupt! Let the politicians who get alot of money from them, and the executives who have been living high on the hog burn. I hate to see people in this situation, but I also hate them expecting people to pay higher taxes as a result of their bad business habits.

Most likely the biggest purchase you make in your live is for your morgtage. The lenders who deal with that requested and received bailout. The second biggest purchase most people make is their vehicle. Now the car manufacturers are requesting bailout. Who is next if the trend continues???? Insurance??? Pharmaceuticals???

I gotta go, I am gonna go to Washington to request MY bailout. Oh wait.......they are causing my financial problems so they are probably not interested in bailing me out!

I have little sympathy for the workers, they've been receiving over-inflated wages for years now. I live in Lansing, MI, which is pretty dominated by GM here, and see so many of these line workers still complaining about their wages, they do not want to sacrifice anything to help the company that has been supporting them for years. The average line worker for GM makes $29/hr, outrageous IMO.

[The Apple]

I have little sympathy for the workers, they've been receiving over-inflated wages for years now. I live in Lansing, MI, which is pretty dominated by GM here, and see so many of these line workers still complaining about their wages, they do not want to sacrifice anything to help the company that has been supporting them for years. The average line worker for GM makes $29/hr, outrageous IMO.
I had no idea what they made. I still dont want to see everyday people paying the price for this. YOU, ME, ANYONE THAT READS THIS POST, will pay the price in tax hikes if they get bailed out. The auto industry is huge so no matter what takes place, it is going to affect someone!

[Buffy]

I won't say much, except BOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Youngbinks]

I won't say much, except BOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll mimic that boo.

[psylichon]

I'm down with the boo. Sometimes regular people get hurt when businesses mess up. That still doesn't mean the business should be rewarded for continual bad management.

American automakers have been in a delusional cloud for too long, and sometimes rude awakenings are what it takes to invoke change. We need change BIG time in that industry.

[iCafe]

I hope Honda goes out of business

[coasts]

I hope Honda goes out of business

another boring icafe comment. are you finished yet?

[Buffy]

another boring icafe comment. are you finished yet?

LOL...sorry, Tom, but you had that one coming! :wink:

[The Apple]

http://www.ironicsans.com/images/autofail.jpg

[up10ad]

Mark your calendars. This date Buffy, Rick and Dave agree on a sensitive political issue.

[Buffy]

Mark your calendars. This date Buffy, Rick and Dave agree on a sensitive political issue.

Whoa, you're right!! Woot!

[mittenman]

http://www.ironicsans.com/images/autofail.jpg

This is true regardless of their financial situation.

[Tex]

Accountability is something most large organizations are lacking in this country, and I sometimes feel ashamed at how our government feels the need to "bail out" any of them.

Let em fall on their face, and teach the whole system a lesson. Business put themselves into these situations...it is NOT our governments job to hold their hands. I understand peoples jobs are at stake, but again.....shouldn't be my money helping them out b/c their "bosses" screwed up how they spent $. I take accountability for my life....if my company went bankrupt, I sure as hell would be pissed if the government fed them several billion...I would hate my job even more.

Sure, teh additional quagmire of a ****ty economy does not help ANYTHING here either, and I wish no ill on anyone. But, I am tired of my $ being pissed away on special interest (Automakers are special interest, and the oil companies are also tied into the interest of the Big 3). Dems AND repubs alike support this kind of bad behavior, and a bail-out is just another way of the GOvernment holding the corporate **** bucket made out of tax payer $.

[smknSRT8]

The government doesn't really look at it as a 100% bailout but also an investment, gaining stocks in that company.

I read that economists say it will cost $125B to get auto industry (or was it just GM?) back.

Why give them $34B if it isn't going to solve the problem.

This is a tough question of ethics. If the automakers do go under, it is rumored that 1/10 people in the US will feel the repercussions of it. That is about 30 million people. We talked about the auto industry in one of my classes, very interesting. When we voted at the end of class, I was undecided. I'm twisted.
I am actually very eager to read more of this thread. This IS going to be affecting us one way or the other.

[Tex]

It certainly will, Matthew. I agree with you. It is a crappy situation to be in for a whole lot of people.

But the proposed solution is like throwing a water balloon into a ragging fire...It is NOT going to fix anything. It is no different that the crap Economic Stimulus package that was signed off on (after a ton of PORK was added to it by the Senate....started off as a 4 page document, to over 400 pages of pork spending and special interest attachements.....WITH NO OVERSIGHT OR TRANSPARENCY!!!!!!!!)

I personally am tired of a corrupt system that gambles the lives of the average working american. I feel for the workers, but this proposed bailout is nothing more than a smoke screen. The workers are the pawns, really.

[smknSRT8]

I also agree with you which is why I was left undecided. There are just too many variables with the bailout to lead it the wrong way. Who really knows what try are doing with the money.
Did you read the article about where GM had a meeting down in Florida I believe, while bankrupt, flew in their private jet there? After the public was made aware next time they made the trip down they "showed up in their hypbrids". If they drove I don't know. But during the crisis they are having, they still have the funding for their private jet?

[up10ad]

A loan? An investment into the industry? I don't want my government becoming a bank or an investor in private companies.

[Tex]

A loan? An investment into the industry? I don't want my government becoming a bank or an investor in private companies.

It's way too late to wish that one away....

[up10ad]

I know Tex, it's a case of love my country, hate my government (a lot of the time).

[Tex]

Most people do, and should, have disdain for government, especially when faced with this troubled Economy, which is the result of many poor decisions made by government, and their ties to large special interest groups associated with large industrial corporations. I love America, but certainly do NOT keep my mouth shut when it comes to my full belief that this country deserves better from top to bottom in regards to how our government is operated, AND operates in the national and international stage. This is not based on any partisan assumptions.....I distrust them all, and with VERY good reason. (i.e. - Obama's campaign is tied up in this whole Illinois Governer mess on corruption charges, but it will be swept under the rug "for the greater good").

The problem is there is a VAST amount of the general public that is complacent, and they just go with what the "news man/woman" tells them, or what their party/movement group says, or what the policians say out of one side of their mouth. The truth, however, is there with decades of evidence...... you just have to fight more for it, IMO. But, most people on both sides of the isle don't question ENOUGH (if anything), and they do not challenge existing institutional methods of how our country is run and operated. That is a trend we need to occur....we need to demand 100% transparency. Under the current method, it'll never happen.

[Tex]

Oh crap...I forgot the No Politics Rule....My bad. But, this is not a political deiscussion, but however an important discussion on our economy, where it is going, and what we think about how our government is supposdly "trying" (lol) to fix the problem in regards to the Big 3.....so do not lock this thread.......It does not deserve that.

I am not attacking any one side, or one group....However, I am attacking a mindset, which is not political per se. Keep it going, I will get off my stool now.

[The Apple]

Did I mention I got denied for my bailout I requested? I think I might have forgot to mention that. What is wrong with the way Blagojevich is practicing community organization?

[mittenman]

No go...........
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20081212/NEWS03/812120349&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

[TSheridan330]

They really grilled the car industry about what they would do with the money, forcing them to develop a business plan and take accountability for the money. The financial sector was given their 700B without a question. I wonder if this accountability stems from learning a lesson after the first big bailout or if republicans deem high paying blue collar jobs to be a threat to the economy. Still haven't figured this out.

I say let 'em fail and use the fallout created from the lost jobs and cut supply lines as leverage to increase transportation and energy innovation. Then we could start creating the transportation systems (and jobs) of the future.