Apple MacBook vs PC

[ravman]

I want to ask you Apple head's on this forum about the MacBook. Before I start... I do not want this to culminate into an argument about how Mac is better than a PC, and vica versa. I am a PC user (.NET developer) and due to the nature of my job, that will never change.

Recently my GF approached me and told me that she wants to buy a new laptop (daddy is paying). I instantly thought of a PC laptop. She said she was interested in checking out the Apple laptops. First thing that came to my mind was, over priced, low spec'd laptops. But we went over to the Apple store and started checking out their laptops (see I can be open minded). I asked the sales guy about what the difference was with a Mac and PC? I just couldn't justify the price difference. The only thing that come out of the salesman's mouth was, "less spam, less viruses and less pop ups". In my opinion, that was simply not good enough. I asked him to tell me more, and he just looked at me with a blank face. His "trying to scare a customer" line did not work. I seriously expected someone in a Mac store to know more about their products. I mean, it's not like going into Best Buy and asking a sales person there for advice right? Chalk and cheese!!

So I am going to ask you Apple heads for some advice. What is the difference between a Mac and a PC (laptops). We have my desktop as our main machine, it has all the stuff we need on there to do our jobs. So the laptop will be more of a second machine. I am thinking of the MacBook and installing Parallels and MS Office, plus a few other bits and bobs.

Any advice?

Once again, please do not turn this into a Mac vs PC fight. I just need some advice.

[Lincoln]

First of all, what the sales guy told you is absolutely true. Never, in all my years of using Macs, have I used an anti-virus or anti-spyware program and neither have I had any kind of viruses or spyware.

Then of course, there is customer support. Apple's customer support is amazing. You need something? Call the store and you will talk to a real person who will halp you with whatever you need.

Interface. Face it, the Mac's interface knocks PC's out of the park. Just them beside each other. You'll see it.

Out of the box. No assembly, no large manuals, no bloatware. You take it out, you tun it on, and there's your Mac, ready to go.

Simplicity. It can take forever to figure things out on PC. Too many menus and buttons to sort through. You want to search for something on a Mac? Just click the Spotlight icon in the top-right and start typing. Want to find an app? Open the Applications Stack in the dock. Simple.

Is your girlfriend into media production? If so, there's no question about what she gets. Macs are so far ahead in multimedia, PC's will never catch up. Between the stock apps that Apple has (iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, iPhoto, etc.) and the ones you can purchase (FinalCut Pro, Logic Express, Aperture, etc.) there's nothing in that department you can't achieve with a Mac.

Price. Yes, when you buy it, the Mac is more expensive. But you don't have to buy new video cards, drivers, or pay people to fix it or remove viruses from it. None of that with the Mac.

Wireless capabilities. Connecting to and creating networks is extremely easy, and with the Mac's wireless network service, Bonjour, connecting to other computers - Mac or PC - is extremely easy.

Seamlessness. Ever synced your iPhone or iPod with a Mac? Try it. There are zero complications. The Mac works perfectly with any hardware made by Apple.

If you still need more, look at Apple's Get a Mac page (http://www.apple.com/getamac/).

- John

[jpmihalk]

All of John's points are valid, but here are some other points to consider:

Macs are more reliable - My MacBook Pro has yet to lock up or freeze or go to a blue screen of death the way that my HP laptop would if there was a driver conflict. (Much like the difference between the iPhone and Windows Mobile and memory management.)

Yes, they have different metaphors for the way information is displayed (dock vs. Start button/desktop) and sometimes finding Mac equivalent software can be tough (like in .Net development) but overall the experience with my Mac is very positive. Apple has started including a lot more apps for free (like the iLife suite) that mean less spending out of pocket for extra software, like John mentioned.

Is it worth the price difference? That depends on your point of view. I have used both for years for different kinds of work (I am an IT professional) and everything depends on what you want to accomplish. I think the Mac is easier to learn than a PC, especially a Vista PC.

[kokogirl]

Your GF should get what she wants, not what you want. She could make a personal shopping appointment at the Apple store. The sales guy will give her a full run-down of the computer. (They were very nice, and not pushy when I did this). Then she will have an experience to compare, not just nuts and bolts.

I LOVE my macbook. Clean lines, beautiful interface. My PC is ugly. I do not like it really. I could trash it today and not care. (I have to use a PC at work).

Life is too short to settle.

[ravman]

Thanks for your advice guys. It was funny, as I just installed Vista on my PC and tried to run something. The PC froze and guess what? THE BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH!!

I've been checking out the refurb MacBooks on the Apple site, they seem to be about $200 ish cheaper than brand new.

So you guys do not use any kind of virus or firewall software at all on your Macs?

[acosmichippo]

not apart from OSX's built-in firewall.

[ravman]

Thats crazy man. On a PC, you wouldn't go near the net, unless you were loaded up with firewall and anti virus.

I was testing out the Macs in the store today. Running applications on the mini Mac, MacBook, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro. Dam, I want that Mac Pro. But I cannot justify the price tag. I love that Spaces application.

My GF has an appointment tomorrow with the Mac store. Let's hope she comes back with good feedback. She's also got her eyes on a Dell XPS fully loaded laptop for $1500.

I have my desktop dual booted with Vista & Leopard. Works for me, but Leopard is very touchy, due to it being on a PC (drivers & stuff).



not apart from OSX's built-in firewall.

[Saverino]

Sorry, but, this is just my opinion, so I dont want to get flamed or anything, but I think that Vista is just a wannabe OS X Leopard...and a bad copy at that...Again, just my opinion and I dont mean to offend any Vista users.

[acosmichippo]

it certainly has its issues. They are working on windows 9 now, which is supposed to be much better. But at the moment Unix > Windows.

[Saverino]

it certainly has its issues. They are working on windows 9 now, which is supposed to be much better. But at the moment Unix > Windows.

Yeah. It seems like to me, they released it quickly without working out all the bugs as something to compete with Leopard.

[kimo]

Thats crazy man. On a PC, you wouldn't go near the net, unless you were loaded up with firewall and anti virus.

I was testing out the Macs in the store today. Running applications on the mini Mac, MacBook, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro. Dam, I want that Mac Pro. But I cannot justify the price tag. I love that Spaces application.

My GF has an appointment tomorrow with the Mac store. Let's hope she comes back with good feedback. She's also got her eyes on a Dell XPS fully loaded laptop for $1500.

I have my desktop dual booted with Vista & Leopard. Works for me, but Leopard is very touchy, due to it being on a PC (drivers & stuff).


Working for FedexKinkos, I see enough non Mac laptops being return to be fixed that I would get a Mac laptop (a Pro when I have the money). It may be a bit more in cost but reliability in the long run is what I would pay extra for.

[up10ad]

I've been in PC software development since 1986 and still do a fair amount of it. You will probably continue to use your current development platform, but I would be willing to bet you find yourself on her MacBook a lot. Since dad is paying for it, let her get the MacBookPro loaded up with RAM and drives and then you can install VMWare Fusion with your favorite Windows version and even do development on it! Fusion is that good. Combined with Spaces, you would love it. I got my first MacBook a few months back and hardly ever use my custom-built dev platform any more.

Hope this helps ya!

[ravman]

I've been messing about with Leopard on my PC (Kalway). I wanted to get my head around Leopard before I make the final decision to go out and buy a PC.

I had problems trying to get Parallels to work, but I downloaded VM Fusion and it's install Vista right now.

I love the Dashboard, it rocks. It's so much like the functionality that the iPhone has.



I've been in PC software development since 1986 and still do a fair amount of it. You will probably continue to use your current development platform, but I would be willing to bet you find yourself on her MacBook a lot. Since dad is paying for it, let her get the MacBookPro loaded up with RAM and drives and then you can install VMWare Fusion with your favorite Windows version and even do development on it! Fusion is that good. Combined with Spaces, you would love it. I got my first MacBook a few months back and hardly ever use my custom-built dev platform any more.

Hope this helps ya!

[projectdarkside]

Sorry, but, this is just my opinion, so I dont want to get flamed or anything, but I think that Vista is just a wannabe OS X Leopard...and a bad copy at that...Again, just my opinion and I dont mean to offend any Vista users.I agree with you man, like Windows has always been known to be a "stiff" awkward, boring OS and although Microsoft tried to loosen a bit with XP, they tried they're best to "relax" with Vista. Vista is definitely a copy of Leopard because you can see that Microsoft tried to make Vista as aesthetically pleasing as possible with the addition of there own version of Widgets, or their own version of spaces ex.
http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/index.26.jpg
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:7S0yrKp2MHFEhM:http://www.lifehacker.com/assets/resources/2008/05/vista-xp-head.png
http://www.z2software.com/images/z2%20Remote2PC.gif

Btw dont worry about getting flamed:tounge: Im sure-I definietely would- we'd all gang up on whoever would try to do that, unless you were asking for it haha!

[ravman]

Not picking sides here (I have both PCs and a Mac now). But wasn't Vista released one year before Leopard? How is Vista copying Leopard? Isn't it the other way around?

Vista was released roughly Nov 30th 2006.

Leopard was released roughly Oct 27th 2007.

Weird to think that Vista copied Leopard?

Or am I totally confused here and Vista is copying the previous version of Leopard (Tiger I think it was called)?


I agree with you man, like Windows has always been known to be a "stiff" awkward, boring OS and although Microsoft tried to loosen a bit with XP, they tried they're best to "relax" with Vista. Vista is definitely a copy of Leopard because you can see that Microsoft tried to make Vista as aesthetically pleasing as possible with the addition of there own version of Widgets, or their own version of spaces ex.
http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/index.26.jpg
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:7S0yrKp2MHFEhM:http://www.lifehacker.com/assets/resources/2008/05/vista-xp-head.png
http://www.z2software.com/images/z2%20Remote2PC.gif

Btw dont worry about getting flamed:tounge: Im sure-I definietely would- we'd all gang up on whoever would try to do that, unless you were asking for it haha!

[acosmichippo]

I thin k he meant Vista is copying OSX. Many of the features he mentioned are found in pre-Leopard versions of OSX.

[ravman]

Dam that Gates. Can't he be original on anything?



I thin k he meant Vista is copying OSX. Many of the features he mentioned are found in pre-Leopard versions of OSX.

[ravman]

Dude, why do you have Hastings on your desktop (weather)?

I used to love going to the Smugglers Caves there.



I agree with you man, like Windows has always been known to be a "stiff" awkward, boring OS and although Microsoft tried to loosen a bit with XP, they tried they're best to "relax" with Vista. Vista is definitely a copy of Leopard because you can see that Microsoft tried to make Vista as aesthetically pleasing as possible with the addition of there own version of Widgets, or their own version of spaces ex.
http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/index.26.jpg
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:7S0yrKp2MHFEhM:http://www.lifehacker.com/assets/resources/2008/05/vista-xp-head.png
http://www.z2software.com/images/z2%20Remote2PC.gif

Btw dont worry about getting flamed:tounge: Im sure-I definietely would- we'd all gang up on whoever would try to do that, unless you were asking for it haha!

[cmatthews71]

3 years ago I swore I'd never own a Mac, now I get upset every time I have to use any version of Windows. My first Mac was a slightly used Power PC Mini running Panther, and even with that it did not long for me to become hooked. I do a lot of audio/video stuff and Macs are perfect for those tasks. my wife still uses a Dell laptop that her place of employment supplies for her, and she is constantly having problems of some sort with it. I still to this day have never had any major issues with any of my Macs.

Also I did not see it mentioned anywhere, everything I've ever read has stated that Macs resale value is quite a bit better than any PC.

[Lincoln]

Dashboard and Widgets are enough strictly a Leopard thing; they were in earlier versions of the OS as well, which were released before Vista.

- John

[knightz]

All of John's points are valid, but here are some other points to consider:

Macs are more reliable - My MacBook Pro has yet to lock up or freeze or go to a blue screen of death the way that my HP laptop would if there was a driver conflict. (Much like the difference between the iPhone and Windows Mobile and memory management.)

Yes, they have different metaphors for the way information is displayed (dock vs. Start button/desktop) and sometimes finding Mac equivalent software can be tough (like in .Net development) but overall the experience with my Mac is very positive. Apple has started including a lot more apps for free (like the iLife suite) that mean less spending out of pocket for extra software, like John mentioned.

Is it worth the price difference? That depends on your point of view. I have used both for years for different kinds of work (I am an IT professional) and everything depends on what you want to accomplish. I think the Mac is easier to learn than a PC, especially a Vista PC.
Hi i've been reading your opinion and i think its biased. i work for Apple-Mac research Department and have been using a Mac for about 10 years roughly. its funny how everyone thinks that Mac's are better than PC's (Vista). when none of you really look at the facts, just its pure speculation and opinion. well let me educate you uneducated people. its a well known FACT that Microsoft XP,Vista its a better machine than apple MAC's, let me give you supporting evidence, why do you think that Microsoft OP's are used in every major company today !!! even Apple offices use Microsoft XP. Mac's look fantastic there interface is simple and stylish. but don't judge a book by its cover. Macs are incapable of completing harder tasks. if you want to run watch a movie, listen to music there great. but ask a mac to run multiple servers over 10 different networks, see what the response is. better yet, they say "Mac's never crash."... try to do some programming on a mac ...you might be surpised. Mac's simplicity is its downfall thats why Mac's will forever remain second place against Microsoft XP and Vista

[knightz]

you people are funny. you talk without knowing the facts....... well let me educate u uneducated people. Microsoft created Vista before Apple created Leopard or tiger Microsoft created Vista many years ago just never released it to the public. in fact many of Apple's Ideas in relation to system programing and hardware management system is based on Windows XP. do you feel stupid? ..... so you should

Thanks for listening
Matthew.Smith. Apple Research Department

[dturner]

Thanks for listening
Matthew.Smith.Used to be in Apple Research Department
:tounge:........

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

Atari ST TOS FTW!

[Lincoln]

Hi i've been reading your opinion and i think its biased. i work for Apple-Mac research Department and have been using a Mac for about 10 years roughly. its funny how everyone thinks that Mac's are better than PC's (Vista). when none of you really look at the facts, just its pure speculation and opinion. well let me educate you uneducated people. its a well known FACT that Microsoft XP,Vista its a better machine than apple MAC's, let me give you supporting evidence, why do you think that Microsoft OP's are used in every major company today !!! even Apple offices use Microsoft XP. Mac's look fantastic there interface is simple and stylish. but don't judge a book by its cover. Macs are incapable of completing harder tasks. if you want to run watch a movie, listen to music there great. but ask a mac to run multiple servers over 10 different networks, see what the response is. better yet, they say "Mac's never crash."... try to do some programming on a mac ...you might be surpised. Mac's simplicity is its downfall thats why Mac's will forever remain second place against Microsoft XP and Vista

Troll in the house. :tounge:

FYI, I do plenty of programming on my Mac.. no problemeos.

[acosmichippo]

funny, i program on my mac just fine.

[Ramesh]

Wow ravman. I never thought I'd see the day. :)

I was a hardcore PC user, and I hated Macs. I too had a more open mind later on, and about 2 years ago, I made the switch. Personally, I like Vista. It's relatively easy to use, and I never had a problem with it. I liked it better than XP. On the other hand, OS X is really nice. Very simple to use, but does offer more to those who know how to use it.

I've not had any virus software on any of my macs, and to this day, no problems. To me, the hardest thing about switching was learning all the shortcuts. There's a great thread in the MacBook Pro forum with pages and pages of shortcuts/tips.

[acosmichippo]

i still haven't come to grips with finder.

it is my nemesis.

[x986]

I have two juniors in college who want to replace three year old Dells. But that is my problem - what I can add to the discussion is that when the time came to replace my desktop, my cmptr. guy said, "Be sure to get a machine with XP or downgradable to XP". He was a beta tester for Vista, and DOES NOT like it.

[acosmichippo]

Vista is just fine.

You have to realize there is a huge difference between the "beta" version of vista that your friend tested and the completely updated version now. It is a much more stable and secure OS than it was pre-release. Did your friend give any specific reasons for disliking Vista?

The trouble with finding a computer with Xp is that you'll have to order one through Lenovo or Dell's business division. No other retailer I'm aware of sells computers with XP anymore.

And unfortunately, it's difficult to predict which new computers will downgrade from vista to XP easily... There aren't always drivers available from newer hardware that will work in xp. Ironically, the only manufacturer I can guaruntee you will be able to install XP on their products is Apple.

So, maybe you can have the best of both worlds. Get a Mac, and if you feel you still need windows, install XP or Vista via bootcamp.

[x986]

Thanks Cosmo,
I appreciate the reply. The guy is not a friend; he's a pro, and continues to find problems with Vista. I continue to read that Microsoft can't get Windows?? out fast enough. I got a Dell, but other machines with higher levels of Vista are downgradable, for a fee.

[acosmichippo]

Yep there is a lot of hype around Windows 7. Let's hope it can live up to it.

Anyway, it's just my opinion that a lot of people like to badmouth vista because it's fashionable to do so. So, in general, i would suggest if you hear someone say "Vista sucks... i hate it," without mentioning any specifics, it's probably best to disregard their opinion. Don't get me wrong, it does have its problems, but it also has many benefits over XP that will be more practical for newer machines and everyday home use.

and, most importantly, make your own mind up. Play on a vista computer at a store or something...

Or try OSX.

[gotzaiPhone]

I gotta agree, Vista is not bad. What was the problem (and now looking like law suits are coming) was that Microsoft originally had lower standards with what level of tech was compatible with Vista, i.e. ram, processor speed, video bus and what not. Thats why EVERY machine had that "Made for XP, works with Vista" sticker. Well that was the cause of Vista "sucking" because it was being installed on computers that couldn't handle it. A buddy of mine has Vista on his new Sony laptop and there are no problems with it because he has a 2.xGHz processor, 4GB of ram and a new enough video card. It would be no different that trying to load OSX 10.5.5 on a first gen iBook, even it could be done, it would run like ****.

With all that said though, I still went Mac just for the simplicity of the OS. I don't do anything crazy with my computer, so easy to use was on the top of my list.

[scandalex]

My 1st PC was running Windows 98 & then 2000. I wanted to go to XP, so I did and couldn't have been happier. Last year I bought a friend a laptop for Christmas running Vista. I didn't like it but I realized I didn't like it simply because I wasn't familiar with the OS. And since I was mailing the laptop off, I didn't have it long enough to get fully acquainted with it.

Having used Windows for so many years is what made me want a Mac. I have the white MacBook and since I'm not into intense applications, I'm really not in a position to compare the merits of Mac vs Windows.

Other than not needing AV software, I dont know what makes Macs so great.
I've been contemplating getting the newer MacBook simply for the "want" factor but based on what I use this one for, I cant imagine what it would do that my white one doesnt.

I know that the newer one is thinner, but for anyone that does have the White/Black MacBook, I'd like to know what the weight difference is.