So I'm in the process of making up my mind...

[Hayesimus]

about a friend of mine. Erin, I've spoken of her previously in different threads. Well. She and I have worked together for two years now. I really began being close friends with her when we started working on the same line together. She confided EVERYTHING in me, and I confided EVERYTHING in her. I would ask her for girl advice, she'd ask me for guy advice. And all that BFF stuff.


Well, then i got moved from her line to a more experienced workers line. Well, our contact has been hindered at work because of the distance, but we would talk on the phone for hours and on myspace and facebook and go eat breakfast together after work. Well. lately she has been really flakey. Like I have invited her to do stuff with me 20 times in the past couple of months and every time she is like yeah sure, and then she doesn't show up or she oversleeps or whatever. S

o I asked her to go with me to my best friends wedding. I told her it was important because I didn't know if I would know many other people there. Well. Wedding is at 5:00 I am calling her at 2. No answer. I called her 20 times! no answer. Didn't hear from her until the next night at work. I was on break and she walked in and said,"Guess your probably not talkin to me right now huh?" Smiling as she said it. I looked at her and said,"Why WOULD I?" and was saved by a page to my line, so I just left her standing there talking. She came up to me again the next night(last night) and asked if I still wasn't talkin to her. I shrugged. She said,"I'm sorry, but dranks some beers after work and didn't wake up. I even had my dad wake me up but I wouldn't listen to him. I know its not a very good excuse but its the truth." I said,"Well, its always something. Every time I invite you to do something, its one LAME-ASS excuse after another. And i'm tired of it." Well, then she walked away.

Later on in the night she came back. "Still not talkin to me?"she asked. I responded,"Are you gonna harass me til i do?" And she said,"Yeah." Well. I shrugged again and she walked away. Am I being a jerk? I mean I don't see her anymore outside of work. She only talks to me at work, unless her jerk boyfriend makes her cry AGAIN and then she calls me up and expects me to hear it AGAIN and tell her that she should leave him AGAIN. Why would I want to pretend we are best friends anymore. I'm just tired of being let down. But everytime she comes up to me I just wanna give her a hug or something. I keep feeling like I'm gonna give in. But I don't want to. Am I a jerk?

[Eragon]

Hayes,

You seem like a reasonable person. It's just a shame you have to go through what you did. You are not a jerk; rather, you are being responsible. Use this as an opportunity to learn about how you feel about yourself and other people. You may be able to reconcile with her. If that was meant to be, then it will be as it should. Otherwise, let her go.

[themanofthedark]

Hayes

I agree with Eragon, you are not a jerk for that. If one is invited to a wedding, and they are depended on to show up, especially if the person who asked you to come, really needs you to be there, and since its their birthday, one should make an effort to GET there. and probably drinking the night before wasn't the greater of ideas either.

my $0.02.

[ColsTiger]

about a friend of mine. Erin, I've spoken of her previously in different threads. Well. She and I have worked together for two years now. I really began being close friends with her when we started working on the same line together. She confided EVERYTHING in me, and I confided EVERYTHING in her. I would ask her for girl advice, she'd ask me for guy advice. And all that BFF stuff.


Well, then i got moved from her line to a more experienced workers line. Well, our contact has been hindered at work because of the distance, but we would talk on the phone for hours and on myspace and facebook and go eat breakfast together after work. Well. lately she has been really flakey. Like I have invited her to do stuff with me 20 times in the past couple of months and every time she is like yeah sure, and then she doesn't show up or she oversleeps or whatever. S

o I asked her to go with me to my best friends wedding. I told her it was important because I didn't know if I would know many other people there. Well. Wedding is at 5:00 I am calling her at 2. No answer. I called her 20 times! no answer. Didn't hear from her until the next night at work. I was on break and she walked in and said,"Guess your probably not talkin to me right now huh?" Smiling as she said it. I looked at her and said,"Why WOULD I?" and was saved by a page to my line, so I just left her standing there talking. She came up to me again the next night(last night) and asked if I still wasn't talkin to her. I shrugged. She said,"I'm sorry, but dranks some beers after work and didn't wake up. I even had my dad wake me up but I wouldn't listen to him. I know its not a very good excuse but its the truth." I said,"Well, its always something. Every time I invite you to do something, its one LAME-ASS excuse after another. And i'm tired of it." Well, then she walked away.

Later on in the night she came back. "Still not talkin to me?"she asked. I responded,"Are you gonna harass me til i do?" And she said,"Yeah." Well. I shrugged again and she walked away. Am I being a jerk? I mean I don't see her anymore outside of work. She only talks to me at work, unless her jerk boyfriend makes her cry AGAIN and then she calls me up and expects me to hear it AGAIN and tell her that she should leave him AGAIN. Why would I want to pretend we are best friends anymore. I'm just tired of being let down. But everytime she comes up to me I just wanna give her a hug or something. I keep feeling like I'm gonna give in. But I don't want to. Am I a jerk?

MOve on dude; she's just not into you.

[Hayesimus]

its not about if she's into me or not. i am way over it. i'm speaking in terms of friendship.

[x999x]

I hate to break it to you, but you are her emotional outlet for venting her frustrations in her own relationship, and using you as a guinnea pig to get the "male perspective" on things she might one day get the courage to talk to her own partner about.

Its very easy to misconstrue the way she interacts with you in many ways, but the bottom line is she's a hedonist who's own gain is at the top of her priorities. Any responsible adult would have made the wedding, or not have had drinks before hand because they knew they had to get up early. Least of all, she could have flat out said No to going, but if she doesn't string you along how else is she going to maintain her emotional blanket?

Why is she so anxious to talk to you again? Most likely because she needs to vent to anyone who'll listen, and unfortunatley for her, that person isn't her partner, its her coworker. Theres something fundamentally wrong there, and I would take that as a red flag.

I do not let women that I'm not romantically involved with speak to me in that way unless we're clear about a few things before hand.

1) We're only ever going to be friends
2) This isn't going to be a regular thing
3) Venting is a two way street, if you need to vent then so do I

Please don't take my comments as being rude, I realize I may be rather curt in how I am expressing myself here, but I am also a man who has been down this road, and if you don't address it correctly, you're going to continue being walked on by people like this.

For the record, this also goes both ways. Men are just as capable of doing this to women.

[themanofthedark]

^ totally right. listen to this man, Hayes.

[ColsTiger]

its not about if she's into me or not. i am way over it. i'm speaking in terms of friendship.


That's the problem; you're in the friendzone, and you're worrying waaaay too much about it.

[Hayesimus]

well no offense but I guess you don't value friendships as much as I do. I'm not worrying about it way too much. Its not like I'm stalking her or something. LOL

[ColsTiger]

well no offense but I guess you don't value friendships as much as I do. I'm not worrying about it way too much. Its not like I'm stalking her or something. LOL

I hope it works out for you. You seem like a nice guy and it's a shame that this girl is not reciprocating your friendship.

[coasts]

hayes, people throughout life will disappoint you. forget her. she's just one of many that will fall off. i think of the Can Ox song: The F-Word and the line "friends, they die and together forever just sounds fly". look it up. bump it in your jeep.

[x999x]

No response to my opinion on the matter Hayes?

I know its something you probably don't want to hear, but I can't stress enough how many times I've been down that road. You have to learn to only give "so much" instead of pouring it on, and its hard. Its hard to limit your compassion for friends when they don't know how to interpret it. Its not your fault you're as caring and understanding as you are, its just WHO you are.

The Hayes you are to this girl is probably the same person she wishes her partner could be. Hold back on "some" of your compassion and save it for the ladies that really count, the ones you're romantically involved with.

You'll find you get into less situations like these in the long run, and you'll have that much more energy to invest in your own relationship.

[Hayesimus]

Well. I have been trying to distance myself from her, yet she has been pretty persistent at trying to pacify me.

She asked if we were friends still and i was like SHRUG. and then she said,"well i just don't know what you want."

I said,"Well, I really wanted a friend who was as good a friend to me as I've been to them all this time."

And she said some other stuff.

And I just said,"I don't even know why you want to be my friend. We don't ever see each other after work so... its not like it would be any different."

Then she said,"Well we will start hanging out."

I said,"Well, i've been tryin for quite a while now and it hasn't been happening."

Her-Well I have trouble waking up.

Me-You wake up for work... what's the difference?

Her-My parents have to get me up for work, other stuff I have trouble gettin up for

Me-So then I'm not important enough... okay.

Her-You wanna go eat breakfast after work?

Me-Well... you'd probably oversleep so we'd better not make any plans... *walks away*

I tried to leave her during this and like 4 other exchanges and every time she would grab my arm and try and hold me there instead of walking away. Its just that I know that if I am like,"yay we are friends again." then it will be exactly the same. Only friends when she needs a friend. And I don't want to do it. But I feel like a jerk in the process because she is bound to start crying eventually as she tends to do that from time to time at work. And I really don't know what I'll do then. I hate to see her cry. Usually its because of the jerks at work, namely her BF. But I guess sometimes ya gotta be a jerk huh?

[x999x]

Well. I have been trying to distance myself from her, yet she has been pretty persistent at trying to pacify me.

She asked if we were friends still and i was like SHRUG. and then she said,"well i just don't know what you want."

I said,"Well, I really wanted a friend who was as good a friend to me as I've been to them all this time."

And she said some other stuff.

And I just said,"I don't even know why you want to be my friend. We don't ever see each other after work so... its not like it would be any different."

Then she said,"Well we will start hanging out."

I said,"Well, i've been tryin for quite a while now and it hasn't been happening."

Her-Well I have trouble waking up.

Me-You wake up for work... what's the difference?

Her-My parents have to get me up for work, other stuff I have trouble gettin up for

Me-So then I'm not important enough... okay.

Her-You wanna go eat breakfast after work?

Me-Well... you'd probably oversleep so we'd better not make any plans... *walks away*

I tried to leave her during this and like 4 other exchanges and every time she would grab my arm and try and hold me there instead of walking away. Its just that I know that if I am like,"yay we are friends again." then it will be exactly the same. Only friends when she needs a friend. And I don't want to do it. But I feel like a jerk in the process because she is bound to start crying eventually as she tends to do that from time to time at work. And I really don't know what I'll do then. I hate to see her cry. Usually its because of the jerks at work, namely her BF. But I guess sometimes ya gotta be a jerk huh?

Well first off, YOU GO BOY!

You're doing great letting her know that you're on the fence about things, my only concern here is that she may interpret this as "your game." Women are from another planet, so you can bet she's not going to get the point unless you spell it out for her. Or maybe its men that are from another planet, I forget.

I think you pointed out her faults, and gave her good questions to answer, especially why she can get up for work, but not you. Her answer to this was juvenile at best I'm afraid.

I hate to say it Hayes, but yes, you do have to be a jerk sometimes. Your emotions are at stake here too, not just hers, and as I've said before its simply in your nature to want to carry the weight of this burden here due to your overwhelming compassion you have for your friends. Theres nothing wrong with this, in fact I'm sure you've got friends that absolutely love you for it. On the flip side of this, you also make friends who can take advantage of this situation in ways that only appease their interests when they want it.

Friends like that are sometimes easy to spot, they'll act 100% interested in you and hang on your every word when they have the intention of unloading a bit of their baggage on you soon after. Once its off their chest they're pretty much done recirprocating their compassion. People like this are lost in my opinion, because they cannot see the value in whats right there in front of them, they only see a finish line for their emotions. If they get all this venting done, they'll cross that finish line and feel better about themselves again. Without venting that finish line gets farther and farther away.

[Hayesimus]

yeah i know. I mean i hate it that I let people walk all over me sometimes but I never realize its happening until its way too late and everyone is sayin,"i told ya so." She did ask me last night if I wanted her to leave me alone and I said,"maybe." and i think she was about to cry and i was thinkin in my head,"crap CRAP no no no!"

[Hawk]

God, I've been down this road a couple times. Hayes, you're doing the right thing. There are only so many footprints my back can take before I get off the front stoop, if you know what I mean.
The best tactic in a situation such as this is to keep going in the direction you are going. If anything, I would try to avoid her altogether for a while. It will sink in... eventually. And she'll try to salvage her friendship with you because it was always so convenient for her before. without you there, her "routine" is broken, and she needs to get back there.
If she ever tries to make plans with you, you can give it a shot and see if she can actually keep her own plans. If she does, well, it could be that she's actually making the effort. If she doesn't or she's late, then either she really has a sleeping disorder ( doubt it) or she is to invested in herself to really pay attention to anyone else.
See, if I overslept for something that someone asked me to do, like attend a wedding with them, I sure as hell would call the moment my eyes were able to read the numbers on the keypad, and apologize and I would still try to make it.
Some people just don't see it as a lack on consideration and respect. It's always in your best interest to move away from those people and find a new friend.
I put myself through 9 years of "friendship" with this one girl who sounds a LOT like your friend. She used to come over and hang out and it was cool. Then she started being more concerned with herself and had no consideration for me- except that I was the friend she could run to.
I had a test I was to take at 6 am one Saturday morning, and she shows up at 10 PM Friday Night with Segrams and seven. She proceeds to get drunk and insists we go out to a club. I caved and said that we can only stay till midnight and then I HAD to leave to get some sleep. She got so wasted... I spent the next 3 hours fending off drunken frat boys. I finally told her I had to leave and it was her choice of whether or not she was coming with me or not. She said fine, and we headed towards the door. I get outside, and she is no longer behind me. I waited 10 minutes (couldn't go back in without paying another cover). I walked to the car and waited 10 more minutes. I drove around the block 2-3 times and no sign of her. So I left. She had the balls to show up at my apartment at 5:20 in the morning, looking for her purse and wanted to know why I just left her alone in the bar district of Atlanta. I handed her the purse slammed the door, and we didn't talk for 2 years. I never apologized, she did. Then the same old routine started all over again. Want to know what killed it? She bought a house and found out afterwards that her morgage was way more than she brought home every month and she needed a room mate. I was already in a lease, and where she lived would make my commute to work about an hour and a half- one way. I told her that I wanted to help, but just was not in a position to. I couldn't afford to break the lease and pay the fees. she basically stopped calling after that.
Do yourself a favor, if she is honestly interested in you as a friend or otherwise, SHE has to make the effort. Otherwise it's just a headache over and over again.
One other thing. If you 2 haven't ironed it out and she's still pursuing you to be her friend and suddenly, she just stops, it means that she found someone else to fill the void.

Let's hope that the old footprints on my back will help teach you to avoid getting any on yours.

[Hayesimus]

Well, i suppose an update is in order. We have kept a distance from one another at work for a while now. Well, B, her helper, is talking to me one night tellin me i should call her up and make up with her. And i was just like,"nah, no thanks." Well, then we were shorthanded one night and I had to go work on the line with her and him. And he starts makin a fool of himself saying,"come one guys, lets kiss and make up. Come on group hug, get over here hayes." Well, she is maybe a foot from me smiling and I look at him standing next to her and I say,"B, SHUT... UP." And he was like,"haha, nah man..." And again, I was like,"SHUT UP!" and then was looked like,oh crap, i made a booboo. haha. He just said,"oh... uh... are you really that mad?" And I said,"YEAH..." So I didn't speak to her all night except for the few times i had to because it pertained to work.

well, apparently she thinks we made up or something because the next few nights in the breakroom she kept askin me questions about my dog, and about why the tv in the breakroom was fuzzy, and blah blah blah. well, i'd answer her and then just go right back to whatever i was doin on my phone. Then, the guy I carpool with at work had to leave or something, anyway, Her boyfriend lives near me and I asked if he could give me a ride home. Well, as I'm walkin to the parking lot, I don't see his truck. Then suddenly I realized that he was with her, driving her vehicle. I was like ah crap. If work wasn't more than 15 miles away, I woulda just said nevermind and walked lol. I felt like I was using her now that I needed a ride home. Meh. oh well.

[jpmihalk]

Dude, I think you have been given some very sound advice and have handled yourself well. Relationships do matter, but each one must be treated differently. In this particular circumstance, it is a learning curve for the both of you. One day at a time...

[Hayesimus]

Well I have stuck by my decision to... hmmm Give up on the friendship? not the term that I'd like to use, but you know what I mean. The friendship had run its course and so there's no point in dwelling on what was. Just moving on.

[Hawk]

First, your carpool buddy should have helped with cab fair or something. That's all I am saying on that.
Secondly, you are doing the right thing. It sucks, it's uncomfortable, and part of you will always have that guilt twinge that will make you want to drop the wall and try again, but you've got to stay strong and stick to your guns.
If she does think that the night you two worked together has broken the ice enough for her to start talking to you again, then I would wait for one of those conversations to start, be even more distant and non-caring than usual, and if she asks what is wrong with you, then I would say "you really don't know?" and then tell her if she truly wants an explaination, you'll give it to her sometime outside of work. ( never let the social threaten the job)
Then tell her on the phone or face to face how you really feel and what you have been seeing during the time that you were friends. After that, simply state that instead of getting yourself run over in a vicious cycle over and over again, you decided that it's best that you remove yourself from the equation and keep it strictly co-worker status.
Then leave and don't wait for the rebutle. It's probably just a very long and drawn-out "pity me" excuse. You don't need to hear it. TRUST ME.

[Hayesimus]

Yes I agree completely. And I have already run through different scenarios in my head and decided that I would tell her to drop it at work if it got too involved.

[soloudinhere]

Here's the thing with women.

Women are inherently insecure. When we talk to you, we generally have something in mind that we want you to tell us. When you tell us what we know we're going to hear but we don't want to hear it, we whine.

She's not being fair by expecting you to be around to lean on when she needs you, but ditching when you need her. It's a two way street, and tell her so. If she wants to be friends, she needs to be willing to put effort into maintaining the friendship. You two are obviously not at a place where you can let communication lapse and know that in a month, or whatever, you can run into each other and still have something to talk about.

I would tell her you're interested in being friends with people who value their friendships and their commitments. If she wants to do that, then great. If not, she needs some time to grow up without leaning on you for support.

Speaking as a woman...sometimes I needed a male friend to tell me to get a life before I realized that I was acting like I was 13 years old with no mind of my own. Those guys are the ones who I'm still friends with years later, not the ones who let me get away with all my crap.

However, I would also make VERY clear that if she has some kind of crush on you, it needs to stop right where it is. A typical woman would not keep pressuring you when you're clearly sending "NO" signals, unless she is INCREDIBLY dense. It almost sounds like she's trying to push you into liking her by complaining about her awful boyfriend, etc. It's a movie trick that never works in real life, because only women like to feel like they're saving someone. Men hate that kind of responsibility.

[Hayesimus]

Wow, that last paragraph was pretty keen. That's pretty much exactly it. I'm not gonna lie, at one point I probably did want more than friendship. I saw her in ways that other people couldn't, but yeah, the more we got to know each other as friends the more I realized that if I was in a relationship with her it would probably go down in flames because she is the kind of girl that wants a knight in shining armor to make all her troubles disappear. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm looking for an equal, to help me when I need help and to accept help from me when it is needed. I was completely fine with that. Friendship was still a worth endeavor in my mind. But alas... some things don't pan out.