False Advertising

[joe]

Just saw a brief financial update on Fox News about the iPhone. The interviewer was clearly biased against ATT and the iPhone. She casually mentioned that Apple is under fire for "false advertising" regarding the speed of the device. I don't think she referenced internet access directly, but it seemed she implied that the UI speed was giving a false impression of the internet speed. A very lame spot that probably makes Jobs' blood boil. It did mine. :angry:

[TrippalHealicks]

Just saw a brief financial update on Fox News about the iPhone. The interviewer was clearly biased against ATT and the iPhone. She casually mentioned that Apple is under fire for "false advertising" regarding the speed of the device. I don't think she referenced internet access directly, but it seemed she implied that the UI speed was giving a false impression of the internet speed. A very lame spot that probably makes Jobs' blood boil. It did mine. :angry:


I think it's an interesting and very "valid" position on the whole thing....
There are gonna be ALOT of people that are gonna buy this phone (for alot of $) and expect the internet to move as fast as it's been shown not only during the keynote, but during several advertisements and hands-on demos. They are going to be anywhere from "mildly disappointed" to "extremely upset", when they find out it's probably not gonna move at anything like that speed....

[Ranged30]

I really wish everyone would just quit crying about this already. Edge is not that bad I use it everyday.

[gcvt]

If it runs that fast using wifi (not edge), then it's not really false advertising is it?

[ColsTiger]

I have said all along that people are going to be disappointed when they leave the store and drop off the WIFI connection and actually use the EDGE network for the first time. The problem will seem even worse because most of the people will have never used the internet on their phones.

[TrippalHealicks]

I have said all along that people are going to be disappointed when they leave the store and drop off the WIFI connection and actually use the EDGE network for the first time. The problem will seem even worse because most of the people will have never used the internet on their phones.


That's correct. I *have* used it, but I never stuck with the smart phones i've used before, just 'cause it wasn't good enough to warrant paying an extra 20-40$/month. The iPhone sets out to do that, and hopefully it will. But, ColsTiger is right, it's gonna be a bit of a shock to some ppl. Not me, I'm in no way saying i *am* or *will be* one of those people that is gonna be PO'd when I get it home and the connection speed is not really Wi-Fi. I'm mostly gonna use the iPhone as my on-couch Myspace device. haha
Like I did with my laptop, when I had it. I sold it recently, to help buy new clothes for my new job. ;) Someone mentioned that it "wouldn't be false advertising if wi-fi is that fast"....nowhere was it ever mentioned whether or not the demonstrations were on WiFi or not. Now, that's not grounds for a "false advertising" case, but it's definitely gonna set some ppl off. haha

[iphonenotify]

its a 30 second commercial. That lady does not understand advertising.

[DD0]

Use edge all the time on my Pearl and it's fine for a phone. If you are using your phone to surf the web like you would on your computer then you are kind of an idiot anyways.

Hopefully a full webpage won't slow load times any more though.

[ps49556n]

Use edge all the time on my Pearl and it's fine for a phone. If you are using your phone to surf the web like you would on your computer then you are kind of an idiot anyways.

Hopefully a full webpage won't slow load times any more though.


Not really. The iphone is supposed to be the next best thing which will require high data speeds but I am not too worried about EDGE.

[soloudinhere]

The issue at hand is that in the keynotes in january and more recently at WWDC, they make the impression that the phone is running on the cellular network when in fact it's running on specially setup wifi that no one else is accessing, so it has maximum available bandwidth and some of the pages have already been loaded in the dress rehearsals, so the phone appears to be operating a lot faster than it does a)in real world wifi and b)over the network.

Same goes for the ads, the instantaneous rendering doesn't jive even with what they were getting over wifi, never mind what you'll get over edge speeds.

[gt1948]

Just saw a brief financial update on Fox News about the iPhone. The interviewer was clearly biased against ATT and the iPhone. She casually mentioned that Apple is under fire for "false advertising" regarding the speed of the device. I don't think she referenced internet access directly, but it seemed she implied that the UI speed was giving a false impression of the internet speed. A very lame spot that probably makes Jobs' blood boil. It did mine. :angry:

Well what do you expect... SJ is trying to get Al Gore to run again and Fox news is owned by R. Murdock, not exactly a Democrat....LOL

[grydlock]

So how do you guys think the actual speed will be in comparison to what we've seen in commercials, the guided tour, etc... ?

[smilly1010]

That's correct. I *have* used it, but I never stuck with the smart phones i've used before, just 'cause it wasn't good enough to warrant paying an extra 20-40$/month. The iPhone sets out to do that, and hopefully it will. But, ColsTiger is right, it's gonna be a bit of a shock to some ppl. Not me, I'm in no way saying i *am* or *will be* one of those people that is gonna be PO'd when I get it home and the connection speed is not really Wi-Fi. I'm mostly gonna use the iPhone as my on-couch Myspace device. haha
Like I did with my laptop, when I had it. I sold it recently, to help buy new clothes for my new job. ;) Someone mentioned that it "wouldn't be false advertising if wi-fi is that fast"....nowhere was it ever mentioned whether or not the demonstrations were on WiFi or not. Now, that's not grounds for a "false advertising" case, but it's definitely gonna set some ppl off. haha

Actually, in the commercials, i think it's made pretty clear that it's wifi because (if i remember correctly) the four vertical bars that show up in the corner of the iphone (the same bars are at the top of your apple computer) were lit up black, signifying a wifi connection.

[ColsTiger]

I predict the WIFI speeds will be about the same. I don't think the average person will notice the difference between a WIFI network with 6 users online and one with one user logged on. Most of the time, mine will be used on a network with one other person logged on, so I expect the same speeds as the keynote and the commercials.

Now EDGE is a different story. I've used this many times on my ROKR, SLVR, and V551. I know it won't be fast, but I also know that it will be MUCH faster than GPRS.

[Ranged30]

I predict the WIFI speeds will be about the same. I don't think the average person will notice the difference between a WIFI network with 6 users online and one with one user logged on. Most of the time, mine will be used on a network with one other person logged on, so I expect the same speeds as the keynote and the commercials.

Now EDGE is a different story. I've used this many times on my ROKR, SLVR, and V551. I know it won't be fast, but I also know that it will be MUCH faster than GPRS.

Plus don't forget that the Edge network got a speed boost lately. I am having no complaints using the web on my Blackberry right now.

[ColsTiger]

Plus don't forget that the Edge network got a speed boost lately. I am having no complaints using the web on my Blackberry right now.

I used my ROKR this weekend just to see if I noticed any speed boost, but unfortunately, I did not. It's faster than GPRS, but still not much faster than it's ever been.:frown:

[TrippalHealicks]

Actually, in the commercials, i think it's made pretty clear that it's wifi because (if i remember correctly) the four vertical bars that show up in the corner of the iphone (the same bars are at the top of your apple computer) were lit up black, signifying a wifi connection.


Right. Because everyone's looking for a "WiFi" icon on the phone, in those brief seconds that it's demonstrated. lol

[Ranged30]

I used my ROKR this weekend just to see if I noticed any speed boost, but unfortunately, I did not. It's faster than GPRS, but still not much faster than it's ever been.:frown:

I notice a pretty big difference here in Colorado, maybe it is just dependent on where you live.

[ColsTiger]

I notice a pretty big difference here in Colorado, maybe it is just dependent on where you live.

Could be true. Maybe it just hasn't gotten here yet. It would make sense for them to upgrade the most populated areas first.

[RchGrav]

When the internet was fairly new we had one of the first internet T1's in the area. It was actually for our Galacticomm BBS, but we provided TCP/IP dialup also over PPP. That T1 could download 1MB files in like 8 seconds, and that was so fast to me. Anyway, I has 56K dialup from home, but from my other job I had ISDN (128Kbps) connection, back to my T1. And I thought that ISDN connection was plenty fast for browsing the web. EDGE is hovering right around ISDN speeds, sometimes a bit faster, sometimes a bit slower.

I won't mind having an ISDN type speed for browsing the web in my pocket. Honestly, it isn't that bad. I've used EDGE, I know what to expect.

Ok, maybe its a bummer if youtube doesn't stream well, but who knows for sure, my initial instict is that it will still work, but depending on the quality of the video it may need to either fully load, or maybe prebuffer a bit.

Hopefully due to the "FINE-EDGE" improvements they are making to the network will remove lag times, and boost the existing EDGE topology to its theoretical maximum speeds, it will be nice. If AT&T is able to provide unlimited services for a reasonable price, then I will be very happy with what I am getting.

The fastest EDGE based smartphone to date was capable of 4 channels at 56kbps over EDGE which gave a maximum of 224Kbps, BUT the true theoretical maximum for EDGE is 8 channels for a total of 448kbps.

Who knows what iPhone is capable of? Does anyone know how many channels in the iPhone EDGE radio??

Oh, don't expect to get 224Kbps, or 448Kbps, but expect ATLEAST ISDN like speeds. That way I won't be disappointed, but very happy if I get more!!

[ColsTiger]

When the internet was fairly new we had one of the first internet T1's in the area. It was actually for our Galacticomm BBS, but we provided TCP/IP dialup also over PPP. That T1 could download 1MB files in like 8 seconds, and that was so fast to me. Anyway, I has 56K dialup from home, but from my other job I had ISDN (128Kbps) connection, back to my T1. And I thought that ISDN connection was plenty fast for browsing the web. EDGE is hovering right around ISDN speeds, sometimes a bit faster, sometimes a bit slower.

I won't mind having an ISDN type speed for browsing the web in my pocket. Honestly, it isn't that bad. I've used EDGE, I know what to expect.

Ok, maybe its a bummer if youtube doesn't stream well, but who knows for sure, my initial instict is that it will still work, but depending on the quality of the video it may need to either fully load, or maybe prebuffer a bit.

Hopefully due to the "FINE-EDGE" improvements they are making to the network will remove lag times, and boost the existing EDGE topology to its theoretical maximum speeds, it will be nice. If AT&T is able to provide unlimited services for a reasonable price, then I will be very happy with what I am getting.

Sorry for rambling.

Don't worry about it. Every time I read one of your posts, I learn a little something about networking. Thanks.

[mav]

EDGE isn't as bad as some make it out to be. I've experienced significant speed improvements on EDGE in the past few weeks on my BlackBerry 8800. While I don't expect to stream YouTube videos on EDGE, it should suffice for Google Maps and looking up stuff quickly on Safari.

[ebrunn]

If the interviewer is thinking that the UI isnt that fast in real life then the rest of the haters and her are in for a surprise. It ran that fast in the Keynote, the commercials, and now the 25 minute real video demo.

[RchGrav]

Don't worry about it. Every time I read one of your posts, I learn a little something about networking. Thanks.

I edited that post so much. haha. I added alot more speculation about the fine-edge improvements.

[joe]

I have said all along that people are going to be disappointed when they leave the store and drop off the WIFI connection and actually use the EDGE network for the first time. The problem will seem even worse because most of the people will have never used the internet on their phones.

This reminds me of looking at diamonds in a jewelry store under their special lights, buying it, then walking outside. Wow, that looks different! :gasp:

Especially in those areas where EDGE isn't so hot and they beefed it up at the Apple store. Walk too far from the store and no internet.

[ColsTiger]

This reminds me of looking at diamonds in a jewelry store under their special lights, buying it, then walking outside. Wow, that looks different! :gasp:

Especially in those areas where EDGE isn't so hot and they beefed it up at the Apple store. Walk too far from the store and no internet.

Well, if you can get a Cingular/At&t signal, then you should get internet. It might not be the fastest, but you should still be able to check email and movie times if you want.

[Marksman]

When the internet was fairly new we had one of the first internet T1's in the area. It was actually for our Galacticomm BBS, but we provided TCP/IP dialup also over PPP. That T1 could download 1MB files in like 8 seconds, and that was so fast to me. Anyway, I has 56K dialup from home, but from my other job I had ISDN (128Kbps) connection, back to my T1. And I thought that ISDN connection was plenty fast for browsing the web. EDGE is hovering right around ISDN speeds, sometimes a bit faster, sometimes a bit slower.


Haha that is awesome. I ran a TBBS set up myself with a T1 for the PPP backend.

[RchGrav]

Haha that is awesome. I ran a TBBS set up myself with a T1 for the PPP backend.

Yep, those were the days. People dialing up to play multiuser ANSI games. We had a real winner called "Tele-Arena" everyone in the area called to play it. It was a BBS MUD type thing.

Respect on the TBBS. ;)

[RchGrav]

Haha that is awesome. I ran a TBBS set up myself with a T1 for the PPP backend.

Damn man, if I go way back, I used to run "Deadlock BBS" on a Commodore 128 w/ a 300 baud modem. I remember getting snubbed when people wouldn't call LD to my system because I was only 300, so I had to upgrade to the 1200 baud modem. Then I was KING of the HILL. I had damn near 500K of files online. HAHA. damn.

Anyway, yes, I'll be fine w/ EDGE on my iPhone. FINE_EDGE, whatever the heck it is. If I like it, I'll surely upgrade to 3G version of the phone when its available!

[RHJS]

Will it be faster than the browser on the sk?

[RchGrav]

Will it be faster than the browser on the sk?

Welllll... Since T-mobile is an EDGE network as far as I know. It should be similar.. But since AT&T has done improvements to performance, and depending on the number of channels in the iPhone modem it may be faster.

Expect the speed to be similar, and be pleasantly suprised if its faster.

Remember you will get broadband like speeds if you have a WIFI connection.

And web pages will render much better than the sidekick in all cases.

[gentlegiantcraig]

Until the world is a place where WIFI is available on every block like McDonalds, its shouldn't be a surprise that the Iphone will be of broadband speeds on the EDGE network.

[Fred87nc]

Ok The speeds of the web browser is faster on the commercials compared to the Keynote, You can clearly tell a difference, even if its for a few seconds. But thats advertisement.

[ebrunn]

Ok The speeds of the web browser is faster on the commercials compared to the Keynote, You can clearly tell a difference, even if its for a few seconds. But thats advertisement.

Thats because the website that was used on the commerical was already loaded in. Jobs was loading sites on the fly.

[Bootlessjam]

I have never used a EDGE network (When the iPhone comes to Australia I doubt it will even use EDGE though)

I was just wondering, what is the actual speed of EDGE? my friend's "broadband" connection is "256Kbps" but the fastest he gets in real life in 35Kbs. My cable internet is "Unlimited" but the max speed is 1.2 Mbps. My 3G phone is so slow it's painful, I don't know the real speed of it though.

I want the real speed not what AT&T say it is

[UnseenLlama]

I have never used a EDGE network (When the iPhone comes to Australia I doubt it will even use EDGE though)

I was just wondering, what is the actual speed of EDGE? my friend's "broadband" connection is "256Kbps" but the fastest he gets in real life in 35Kbs. My cable internet is "Unlimited" but the max speed is 1.2 Mbps. My 3G phone is so slow it's painful, I don't know the real speed of it though.

I want the real speed not what AT&T say it is

I would typically get 80 to 100 Kbps on my Nokias on the AT&T EDGE network. Tested through dlsreports mobile version.

[gt1948]

The issue at hand is that in the keynotes in january and more recently at WWDC, they make the impression that the phone is running on the cellular network when in fact it's running on specially setup wifi that no one else is accessing, so it has maximum available bandwidth and some of the pages have already been loaded in the dress rehearsals, so the phone appears to be operating a lot faster than it does a)in real world wifi and b)over the network.

Same goes for the ads, the instantaneous rendering doesn't jive even with what they were getting over wifi, never mind what you'll get over edge speeds.

And? Hell the whole marketing business is nothing but lies what do you really expect? There is not one ad on TV today that something cant be interpreted as a lie and probally is. There motive is money not your well being...LOL.

Change the laws and stop bytching is what I recommend, if people would complaint more to their reps and senators we might see a change in laws. If people would go and vote that would help....LOL worst voter turnout of any democratic country in the world...

damm where did that SOAP BOX come from......appologies :smile:

[gt1948]

EDGE isn't as bad as some make it out to be. I've experienced significant speed improvements on EDGE in the past few weeks on my BlackBerry 8800. While I don't expect to stream YouTube videos on EDGE, it should suffice for Google Maps and looking up stuff quickly on Safari.

Good to hear, do you attribute those speed improvements to AT&T advertised EDGE improvement program for the IPHONE?

[soloudinhere]

Thats because the website that was used on the commerical was already loaded in. Jobs was loading sites on the fly.

No he wasn't. I was at the rehearsals for the macworld keynote in january and those pages were loaded at least three times before the real keynote, and they were loaded over special wifi.

[skyman]

I have said all along that people are going to be disappointed when they leave the store and drop off the WIFI connection and actually use the EDGE network for the first time. The problem will seem even worse because most of the people will have never used the internet on their phones.

Yes! Especially when you have 1 million iPhones all sucking on the EDGE network at the same time. Should be fun.

[kdarling]

When the internet was fairly new we had one of the first internet T1's in the area.

Ah the good old days, when moving up from 110 to 300 to 1200 was so amazing. I remember kicking off the download of a large photo from CompuServer at midnight, and then going to sleep, since it would take about an hour to get a single picture. Now it takes one second.


The fastest EDGE based smartphone to date was capable of 4 channels at 56kbps over EDGE which gave a maximum of 224Kbps, BUT the true theoretical maximum for EDGE is 8 channels for a total of 448kbps.

Who knows what iPhone is capable of? Does anyone know how many channels in the iPhone EDGE radio??


Your phone only uses one download frequency.

The way EDGE works is this: there are 8 time slots per frequency. Four can be used to download to you, one can be used for upload packets, four are dedicated voice only.

Each slot is capable of a 59kbps burst. So if you're the only data user on that channel, you can get 4 slots x 59k = 236k. If there are more users, the slots are first-come, first-served for download. Uploads are collision-based, and degrade quickly. Since web browsing is over TCP/IP, there has to be lots of handshaking, and multiple users can cause a slowdown to far less than 59k per user.

Rumor is that Cingular, in some areas, is taking one or more of the voice slots and reallocating it to data to try to boost internet access. (More dropped voice calls.)

Basically, the more people who buy an iPhone in your area, the worse your net experience will be. So try to dissuade your friends. :laugh2:

[Bootlessjam]

I would typically get 80 to 100 Kbps on my Nokias on the AT&T EDGE network. Tested through dlsreports mobile version.
Thankyou UnseenLlama. To me that speed is way faster compared to most people's "broadband" connections is here is Australia. I don't know what all you people are complaining about!

To me is was very obvious that the iPhone was using WiFi in every demo to date. Steve even mentioned it was during the keynote!

[UnseenLlama]

Thankyou UnseenLlama. To me that speed is way faster compared to most people's "broadband" connections is here is Australia. I don't know what all you people are complaining about!

To me is was very obvious that the iPhone was using WiFi in every demo to date. Steve even mentioned it was during the keynote!

No problem. Hopefully with some of the improvements that AT&T has made to the network, we will see even better speeds.

[telePhono]

Will it be faster than the browser on the sk?

BUT OF COURSE!