Be Honest - You EXPECTED 3rd Party Apps?

[DRabbit]

All this arguing around here, which I admittedly have been part of (LOL) - it amuses me. I think back to iFriday and how happy everyone was (or at least mostly happy).

Yup, of course I agree we are missing some features - and if you haven't read posts from me in the past, well I'm of the thought we're going to start seeing some pretty cool stuff when Leopard is released next month. But I think back to iFriday and I know, at least for me, I didn't buy the phone EXPECTING it.

For the most part, I knew on that day what the phone could and couldn't do. I'm not sure when I became aware that 3rd party apps wouldn't officially be available, but it was very early on in my ownership... and it didn't matter to me. I was happy with my iPhone as it was, and was willing to be patient for software updates from Apple to enhance it's feature-set.

Which has me wondering today... I cannot imagine that ANYONE here actually bought the iPhone EXPECTING that they were going to rely on 3rd party apps. I have to imagine that MOST people, even the geekiest of us, bought the iPhone because it was the newest had-to-have gadget, or because it had a feature-set on it already that was going to give them what they wanted. The hardest of hardcore geeks would OBVIOUSLY have known ahead of time what they were getting and that Apple was not currently offering a SDK for 3rd party application development. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that anyone, especially in THESE forums, was THAT ignorant.

So I rewind to the time when we were all at least somewhat happy with our iPhone, without all the gangsta custom themes, without the illegal ringtones, without a buggy iChat wanna-be, and I wonder how long the bliss would have lasted had this software "hole" been closed from the beginning.

I know for me, since I didn't do even one mod, I'm just as happy today as I was on iFriday. My phone emails, it makes calls, it's a calendar, it gets on the internet, it gives me weather and stock quotes, it lets me text with my family and IM with my husband during our work day. It bluetooth connects to my car and provides music when I work out. It even lets me takes notes in a meeting or fool my boss into thinking I'm still sitting at my home computer working (LOL).

I'm a logical person and a tech nut. Lots of experience with computers, both PC and Mac for work and play. I always like the latest gadgets. I can certainly complain about a device whether the manufacturer is Apple or someone else when I feel it's warranted. But I have to say, mods or not, I still think the iPhone is one of the best little devices to come out in a LONG time.

...it amazes me how things can change, at least in some people's minds, so fast...

[Sleeper]

Short answer: Yes.

You being an apologist for Apple doesn't change that.

[x999x]

Short answer: Yes.

You being an apologist for Apple doesn't change that.

Quoted for truth

[DRabbit]

Short answer: Yes.

You being an apologist for Apple doesn't change that.

Don't know how to reply without sounded rude - honestly... LOL... How you you claim that when from nearly day one Apple said they weren't going to support it?

I don't need to be an apologist for Apple at all. If you're unhappy with the way you chose to spend your money, ebay it. I can't believe you didn't know what you were buying if you're the same geek that researches and downloads every app from Tom-Dick-and-Harry-on-the-net.

Which is why I posted this. It makes no reasonable sense that the ones who are in forums about their cellphone are the same ones saying they are shocked. It was all over the net that Apple wasn't going to allow 3rd party developement, and the warnings about modded phones were all over the net prior to this update. You expected a company like Apple who maintains tight control over their devices to not do so with this device?

Really?

[Conan]

I really could care less if apple endorses 3rd party apps. I know what I got myself into and I have no regrets. Though 3rd party apps take the phone to a whole new level and I enjoy modding my phone to put them on it, I really dont care if apple is going to endorse it. If they do, more power to them. If they dont..I will just mod it without apples consent..simple as that.

P.S no I was not expecting for 3rd party apps

[patrickj]

I agree with you that the iPhone, as is and untouched, is still a superb device. But ... I do absolutely expect 3rd party apps to be a major part of the iPhone's appeal and success.

Especially on this first generation of it, where there is no 3G connectivity, I don't think anybody can be entirely content with using just web-based apps for many essential tasks, when every time you can't hit WiFi they're likely to crawl along and frustrate you away from using them.

I also agree with many people here and elsewhere who have talked about how it is usually the presence of killer apps, and a rich variety of apps, that will make or break an OS platform. I think it's very clear that an awful lot of people want an awful lot of apps that are not yet (or ever to be) provided by Apple themselves.

Windows Mobile - for all its faults and deficiencies in terms of UI, is a very good mobile OS because of the huge range of useful, powerful, fun etc. apps that are out there for it.

The sooner Apple starts supporting third party development, the more we'll all be able to get out of our iPhones ....

[DRabbit]

Patrick,

While I am a geek at heart and do have a lot of "3rd party apps" on all my computers, I don't necessarily agree that most people want them on their mobile devices... or even their computers.

Of course, this probably gets us into a whole different discussion... but it goes to the reality that MOST people use their computer to about 10% of it's potential. Email, AIM, Web and Word docs... and you've got your average user.

Which, if you can believe even some of that, tells you that the iPhone will have to include some kind of easy AIM app soon. It's the one big thing I think it was missing, though I'm sort of personally "expecting" we'll see it in October or November along with the Leopard release. I say "expecting" because my pleasure with the device certainly doesn't hinge on it... I'm doing AIM on the phone now. iChat would just make it a nicer experience, and more user friendly to the masses.

I suppose the question I should really have asked was "did your happiness with the iPhone hinge on the ability to install 3rd party apps, on the day you bought it?" or "Did you buy it expecting you'd be able to run home and put 3rd party apps on it?"

As much of a geek as I am I never for one second thought I'd consider downloading software onto my iPhone -- unless it was "officially" provided (not necessarily by Apple, but supported stuff). My happiness with the device certainly didn't hinge on it.

[bschizz]

It was all over the net that Apple wasn't going to allow 3rd party developement, and the warnings about modded phones were all over the net prior to this update. You expected a company like Apple who maintains tight control over their devices to not do so with this device?

Really?

Yes, I expected (and still expect) 3rd party apps on any cell phone, especially one with the abilities that an iPhone has. Consider that virtually every cellphone on the market that at least has WAP on it can use 3rd party apps.

Did I expect Apple to ENCOURAGE 3rd party apps? No. But Apple has gone beyond discouraging them. Apple has intentionally rendered their own product helpless.

If it was "all over the net" somehow I missed it. I followed the iPhone rumors with interest and somehow did not hear this. In fact, it wasn't until I was trying out an iPhone in an AT&T store a few weeks ago that it became apparent how little customization and modification could be done to it. You can feign shock all you like, but Apple has only recently made clear that they (might/would) be disabling modified iPhones.

I'm not a modder or a hacker, but within 2 minutes of playing with the iPhone, I was already asking things like "What? I can ONLY use Safari?" If it's OSX based, then it should run Mozilla like the OSX based MacBook. If I don't want an icon for stocks, or want a direct icon/shortcut to my Gmail, then I should be able to have it. Every cellphone I've had since 2004 has allowed me to modify my main screen contents using built in options settings.

I think Apple's only choice to recover from this debacle is to either essentially undo this last update, or really step up their own updates. If neither of these happens soon, the fence sitters are just going to hold out for the next new fad phone.

[DRabbit]

Well bschizz, I guess I can buy some of that... except that after playing with the phone and asking your "what?!" questions in shock, you still bought the phone? Why?

While I can understand anticipation that there will be software downloads officially supported and available in the future, I just don't understand buying a device where that expectation becomes required. How long were you willing to give them?

My theory is that Apple will eventually allow 3rd party applications once it is "done" with putting on all it's own software first. From both a technical and business standpoint, that makes the most sense to me. My happiness with the device though doesn't hinge on those 3rd party apps, because I only expected the iPhone to do exactly what it was marketed to do... which, just a short time ago, we were all arguing was a lot more than most phones do, even with some of it's shortcomings.

[bschizz]

Well bschizz, I guess I can buy some of that... except that after playing with the phone and asking your "what?!" questions in shock, you still bought the phone? Why?

I didn't. I had cash in the pocket right then to make the purchase. But I asked about Mozilla and the ability to change the icons and the AT&T rep just shook her head. I told her that as much as I wanted to like it, the iPhone didn't seem ready for my needs.

I was literally going to buy one right after this update. But Apple's apparent willingness to alienate many of their customers just to milk a few bucks out of the rest has changed my feelings on the iPhone. Apple has some work to do before I jump back off the fence.

[DRabbit]

I didn't. I had cash in the pocket right then to make the purchase. But I asked about Mozilla and the ability to change the icons and the AT&T rep just shook her head. I told her that as much as I wanted to like it, the iPhone didn't seem ready for my needs.

I was literally going to buy one right after this update. But Apple's apparent willingness to alienate many of their customers just to milk a few bucks out of the rest has changed my feelings on the iPhone. Apple has some work to do before I jump back off the fence.

See? If you don't own one I can't argue with you -- you didn't like what it offered so you didn't buy it. I respect your decision :2cool:

[patrickj]

Agree totally with your points about *most* people may not want or care about mods and apps, and about people only making use of 10% of what a PC can do etc. I only said there are an awful lot of people around who do want apps Apple is not providing right now.

But ... I agree with something great I read recently (can't recalll source right now) that talked about how the 'masses' may make or break the success of a consumer product, but it is often the 'evangelists' (early adopters, techie geeks, expert sites and mags etc) that go a long way towards educating and pumping up the masses to go get one. And Apple hasn't helped their image with evangelists via this latest update.

I don't fault you at all for loving the iPhone without mods though. It is a great device no matter what.

I just hope and believe that Apple needs to embrace 3rd party apps to make the device all it really can be, and they'll start making - at least initial - steps in that direction soon.

Patrick,

While I am a geek at heart and do have a lot of "3rd party apps" on all my computers, I don't necessarily agree that most people want them on their mobile devices... or even their computers.

Of course, this probably gets us into a whole different discussion... but it goes to the reality that MOST people use their computer to about 10% of it's potential. Email, AIM, Web and Word docs... and you've got your average user.

Which, if you can believe even some of that, tells you that the iPhone will have to include some kind of easy AIM app soon. It's the one big thing I think it was missing, though I'm sort of personally "expecting" we'll see it in October or November along with the Leopard release. I say "expecting" because my pleasure with the device certainly doesn't hinge on it... I'm doing AIM on the phone now. iChat would just make it a nicer experience, and more user friendly to the masses.

I suppose the question I should really have asked was "did your happiness with the iPhone hinge on the ability to install 3rd party apps, on the day you bought it?" or "Did you buy it expecting you'd be able to run home and put 3rd party apps on it?"

As much of a geek as I am I never for one second thought I'd consider downloading software onto my iPhone -- unless it was "officially" provided (not necessarily by Apple, but supported stuff). My happiness with the device certainly didn't hinge on it.

[snowcrash]

Not that i expected them to "support" 3rd party apps but i didnt expect them to hinder it either. When I bought the phone I kind of expected more from "future" updates and Apple in general. Widgets, games, dock/home screen re-order, themes, etc. It doesnt have to be 3rd party. Heck for all I care Apple can come out with them, but things like "tasklist" "customizer" "summerboard" "mobilemoney" "sRBT (if i remember the name correctly)" etc etc etc etc I would have thought Apple would have come out with something like those by now. Its a great device but is lacking in so many ways and its a shame that it took 3rd party apps to really use it to its potential and when things were starting to look good Apple closed it down.

Most if not ALL pda/smartphone type phones already have this installed from the get go. If not there are many 3rd party apps out there that dont get constantly shut down with updates and patches. I really think its a shame Apple is going this route because we have only "touched" on the FULL potential of this device and it can offer so much more. I really feel bad for the people who are using it stock and thinking its the greatest thing ever. It really is night and day once you start customizing it and using programs that are specific to your needs.

[geordisjd]

So you've never hacked an iPhone, never even owned one, don't want to buy one. Why are you here?

[bschizz]

So you've never hacked an iPhone, never even owned one, don't want to buy one. Why are you here?

You know everything. You tell me.

[Sleeper]

Don't know how to reply without sounded rude - honestly... LOL... How you you claim that when from nearly day one Apple said they weren't going to support it?

There's a difference between 'not supporting' and 'deliberately breaking'. I explained that in my reply to your ludicrous post in another topic.

I don't need to be an apologist for Apple at all.

But you are.

If you're unhappy with the way you chose to spend your money, ebay it. I can't believe you didn't know what you were buying if you're the same geek that researches and downloads every app from Tom-Dick-and-Harry-on-the-net.

Silly rabbit! I'm British so I don't have an iPhone. I was looking forward to getting one when they came out over here, however given that they've not upgraded it for the European market, it's over priced in comparison to comparable phones and now they've neutered it so you can't even put apps on it I shan't be touching it with a barge pole unless Apple get their act together before November's launch.

Which is why I posted this. It makes no reasonable sense that the ones who are in forums about their cellphone are the same ones saying they are shocked. It was all over the net that Apple wasn't going to allow 3rd party developement, and the warnings about modded phones were all over the net prior to this update. You expected a company like Apple who maintains tight control over their devices to not do so with this device?

Really?

LOL! There is a huge difference between not supporting and deliberately bricking people's phones.

[geordisjd]

You know everything. You tell me.

Isn't time for a little profanity or insult?

[bschizz]

There's a difference between 'not supporting' and 'deliberately breaking'. I explained that in my reply to your ludicrous post in another topic.

.........


LOL! There is a huge difference between not supporting and deliberately bricking people's phones.

Quoted for truth. Nailed that on the head. Shame on Apple for acting like this isn't deliberate; too many people are falling for the act.

[bschizz]

Isn't time for a little profanity or insult?

Isn't *it* time for you to stop being a pansy and respond in the other thread? What's wrong? Scared? When it comes to change, most closed minds are.

[birkoff]

Here's what I expect....I bought a PC 25 years ago, voted
with my dollars...I upgraded to a 10 meg disk and it
cost me $900. Fast forward 25 years and PCs are
dirt cheap, the internet has a ton of services and features,
app software can't really be improved much.

I was given a iPhone for my birthday so I have no expectations.
I luv it. It is far from perfect, nor was my PC 25 years ago.
The same can be said of all the cell phones I bought over the
years.

I don't know if I need a spread sheet app, I'm sure I don't
need a word processor. I just want to hear sounds on the
internet....and I just want it to be a little less proprietary
apple.

If it isn't? Google will own Apple in 2 years and the Google iphone
will have all kinds of neat stuff and my iphone will be in the
drawer with all my other cell phones.

[OJsakila]

illegal rigtones!? Who do you think you are? It's MY phone and I'll do whatever the hell I want to with it! ...illegal...

....dumb rabbit.

[Prelector]

What did I EXPECT?

I "expected" functional apps that met the basic personal, business, and multimedia (ipod) needs.
- NOPE, got Barely basic personal, virtually no business, but good iPod needs.

I "expected" games, and other "fringe" apps from either Apple, an endorsed 3P, or "the community".
- NOPE, what I got from Apple was a bait and switch game worthy of Barnum and Bailey; oh, and their throwing up a major roadblock to Anyone else attempting to advance this device into the 20th century.

I "expected", after 3 MONTHS of sales/development, most bugs fixed (or in process) and some content additions already hitting the phone.
- NOPE, what we've gotten is JACK from Apple. Not a single acknowledgement of ANY of the bugs we've mentioned. Not a single acknowledgement of ANY of the missing basic functions.

I Didn't "expect" a bunch of Sanctimonious Jerks blasting me for how I felt towards a 3rd party (Apple). I CERTAINLY didn't expect that I'd need to justify my let down at Apple's lack of Customer Recognition.

From day i, Apple has treated us like mushrooms: throwing crap on us, keeping us in the dark, and expecting us to flourish!

I also want to apologize: I've tried very hard to provide intelligent, factual, dispassionate, advice on the topics I'm able to comment on here... But in the last 2 days, the only thing that's pissed me off more than Apple, is the COMMUNITY MEMBERS blasting others for not falling into line!

Newsflash people, WE DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY OUR ACTIONS, OR EXPECTATIONS TO YOU! We're consumers, who spent the same money as you did, on the same product. If we're no longer happy with the direction things are going... if we've, basically, lost all hope in Apple's finally deciding to "do right" by us, it's not YOU we have to explain ourselves to... it's Apple.

[geordisjd]

Isn't *it* time for you to stop being a pansy and respond in the other thread? What's wrong? Scared? When it comes to change, most closed minds are.

Hey, young man, stop insulting 65 year-old females or anybody in general. You're not going to come out of this looking good. You are a brat. I've raised enough brats in my lifetime to recognize a bad one when I see one. Go back to wherever you came from and hope your mother forgives you for insulting old ladies.

[Waveguy]

I was happy with the iPhone on June 29, and I still am for the most part - it lets me do things I could never do with my previous (admittedly low-end) cell phones, and I still have a great time using it.

It does bother me to know that the iPhone has so much unrealized potential, and I expected more functionality from Apple by now. As I've said elsewhere, I also think that we'll get an SDK at some point, although I wonder why there's been no hint from Apple.

Meanwhile, I don't see any reason to get worked up about it. Much as I want cut-and-paste, to-dos, and other features on my iPhone, it's not my highest priority.

[Dawgfan]

I am drunk but you are an idiot.

[Sleeper]

Hey, young man, stop insulting 65 year-old females or anybody in general. You're not going to come out of this looking good. You are a brat. I've raised enough brats in my lifetime to recognize a bad one when I see one. Go back to wherever you came from and hope your mother forgives you for insulting old ladies.

If you have nothing to add to the content of this discussion then please don't bother posting.

[bschizz]

Hey, young man, stop insulting 65 year-old females or anybody in general. You're not going to come out of this looking good. You are a brat. I've raised enough brats in my lifetime to recognize a bad one when I see one. Go back to wherever you came from and hope your mother forgives you for insulting old ladies.

You're 65 and you act like this? Weren't you supposed to grow up sometime between adolescence and now? I can't believe anyone would get this worked up over a phone. Oh wait, it's not *just* a phone. :rolleyes:

We had a right to expect the availability and use of 3rd party apps on the iPhone, seeing that virtually every other cell phone has that capability. I'm sorry you can't even bring yourself to address that statement, much less comprehend it.

Being 65 and female doesn't make you immune to criticism when you blindly defend an imperfect product, make ridiculous generalizations (and incorrect assumptions about my identity), and try to exclude people from discussions even though they have a right to contribute. Even though you're terrible at it, you should stick to defending your phone. So again, STFU until you can restrain yourself to that.

[Indy]

What did I EXPECT?

I "expected" functional apps that met the basic personal, business, and multimedia (ipod) needs.
- NOPE, got Barely basic personal, virtually no business, but good iPod needs.

I "expected" games, and other "fringe" apps from either Apple, an endorsed 3P, or "the community".
- NOPE, what I got from Apple was a bait and switch game worthy of Barnum and Bailey; oh, and their throwing up a major roadblock to Anyone else attempting to advance this device into the 20th century.

I "expected", after 3 MONTHS of sales/development, most bugs fixed (or in process) and some content additions already hitting the phone.
- NOPE, what we've gotten is JACK from Apple. Not a single acknowledgement of ANY of the bugs we've mentioned. Not a single acknowledgement of ANY of the missing basic functions.

I Didn't "expect" a bunch of Sanctimonious Jerks blasting me for how I felt towards a 3rd party (Apple). I CERTAINLY didn't expect that I'd need to justify my let down at Apple's lack of Customer Recognition.

From day i, Apple has treated us like mushrooms: throwing crap on us, keeping us in the dark, and expecting us to flourish!

I also want to apologize: I've tried very hard to provide intelligent, factual, dispassionate, advice on the topics I'm able to comment on here... But in the last 2 days, the only thing that's pissed me off more than Apple, is the COMMUNITY MEMBERS blasting others for not falling into line!

Newsflash people, WE DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY OUR ACTIONS, OR EXPECTATIONS TO YOU! We're consumers, who spent the same money as you did, on the same product. If we're no longer happy with the direction things are going... if we've, basically, lost all hope in Apple's finally deciding to "do right" by us, it's not YOU we have to explain ourselves to... it's Apple.

Yea, what he^ said...

I believe the conversation ended here somewhere....>insert "period"<

Nuff' said.

=P

[Bilal]

Yea, what he^ said...

I believe the conversation ended here somewhere....>insert "period"<

Nuff' said.

=P
Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apple evangelists cant take over this forum. I bought the phone because there were ways to hack it. Hackers will always beat out Apple until Apple slowly realizes that their own 65 year old evangelist fanbase is nothing to discourage users from hacking.

[aknightstale41]

You obviously showed a lot of restraint and patience in not buying something that didnt fit your needs in every way, which tells us you can live without the iphone.
So why the posts in here as if you have been personally robbed and cheated by apple? You dont even own the product in question.
Yes this forum is for all, owners and future owners, and we all have an opinion to express, but it seems odd that you would take the time to post negatively about the iphone, when you dont even own one.
Just my opinion:smile:

[randyg]

Looking at this from a business standpoint, I wouldn't expect "blessed" 3rd party apps just yet. Apple is in new territory here. They need to get the phone sold and into people's hands. They don't need a lot of press that all these 3rd party apps they've allowed are messing up the phone, so they don't officially allow them. You know that's exactly what would happen, everyone would be installing all these apps, they would mess with the system, screw up the phone, and all the whiners would be saying what a piece of crap the iPhone is because it's always crashing...can anyone say Palm! You all know this is true. So, Apple sticks with what works, for now, and then hopefully in the near future will open the floodgates some. I just think it's in their best interest to have the phone out for a while, no reports of major problems, and let that settle in. Then, start allowing new apps. This could also be a way to boost more sales once initial sales have dropped off. Just a thought, and my own personal opinion.

[Tutumiles1]

I think the critical point that Apple will have to decide is, is the value of control more important than the value of listening to the customer base. Apple has correctly identified a platform that is exciting for at least 1 million people and growing. In the event that Apple chooses to not provide 3rd party apps, I am sure one of the other competitors, that should be listening will fill this opportunity. There is a large number of wonderful 3rd party applications that none of the original platform companies provided.

My primary reason for buying the phone was the crappy "syncing" software for Mac's to Microsoft PC smartphones. I loved the number of apps that I had purchased from 3rd party providers but needed easy syncing most importantly. I want to support Apple but if it is the same device 6 to 9 months from now, and someone else made a great device, I would buy the new device. There are good devices now so its important to not be Apple ****y. I am trying to best support my needs and if that is Apple, I am there for them.

[Tinman]

Looking at this from a business standpoint, I wouldn't expect "blessed" 3rd party apps just yet. Apple is in new territory here. They need to get the phone sold and into people's hands. They don't need a lot of press that all these 3rd party apps they've allowed are messing up the phone, so they don't officially allow them. You know that's exactly what would happen, everyone would be installing all these apps, they would mess with the system, screw up the phone, and all the whiners would be saying what a piece of crap the iPhone is because it's always crashing...can anyone say Palm!
Yes I can say Palm. But what you fail to realize is just how robust OS X on the iPhone is compared to Palm. Palm's OS 5 "frankengarnet" is a nightmare of their own creation. It crashes with factory-supplied apps. Worse, when it crashes you are in a game of Russian Roulette: will it just reset, will it reset and turn the phone off, or will if HARD reset? You never know, but I have seen all of that happen. That is nothing like the iPhone--even with third-party apps.

And now that I have several months of third-party app usage under my belt, my opinion is that Apple is just spreading FUD with their comments about third-party apps. "Take down AT&T's west coast network?" Give me a break.

Instead I have observed an incredibly robust OS in the iPhone, one that can handle most anything that is thrown at it. The apps I have used were primarly beta or alpha releases--and all were developed without the benefit of an SDK. None have done anything more hazerdous than cause me to turn my iPhone off and back on. Heck, I had do to that just to keep Safari from crashing before I ever added a third-party app.

The fact that Apple has gone out of their way to shut the door on the third-party dev is something I will not soon forget. Doesn't mean I don't still love my iPhone, I do. But my feelings about Apple, at least at the moment, are not what I would call positive.

As usual, IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc.


--
Mike

[DisneyEcho]

No, I did not expect 3rd party apps. There aren't any for the other Apple handhelds, so why would I?

[Waveguy]

No, I did not expect 3rd party apps. There aren't any for the other Apple handhelds, so why would I?

The only other Apple handhelds that I know of are iPods, and there certainly are 3rd party apps (games) for them.

(See http://www.apple.com/games/ipod/)

[brad1445]

I expected a smart phone, at least as smart and flexible as my Treo 750p and I'm a huge apple fan of 20 years but have lost a lot of power i had a month ago on my treo.

[el padrino]

I didnt even buy it until I knew 3rd party apps existed and were flourishing. Think of it this way guys. Apple makes nice computers. Are you saying you would never expect to use any non-apple program for your Mac?

[SmartAlx]

I don't need to be an apologist for Apple at all.Considering the vehemence in your replies supporting Apple, I would have to politely disagree with you here. There does indeed seem to be some compunction in you that reads (to me at least) that you personally feel a deep need to defend Apple.If you're unhappy with the way you chose to spend your money, ebay it.
Here goes this same argument again. I sure wish people would stop making it. It goes nowhere and only leads to more argument.

Maybe he IS happy with the phone the way it is. But he just knows that he will be happier with the phone if it had supported 3rd party apps.

And to answer your question:
No I didn't expect 3rd party app support from Apple. But I was looking forward to the hacker community developing them anyway.

[Tinman]

Here goes this same argument again. I sure wish people would stop making it. It goes nowhere and only leads to more argument.

Maybe he IS happy with the phone the way it is. But he just knows that he will be happier with the phone if it had supported 3rd party apps.
Nope, that is unacceptable. You either love it and praise it and Apple 24/7 or get rid of it. There are no shades of gray, haven't you noticed? :wink:



--
Mike

[SmartAlx]

Yes, I have. :frown:

*sigh* oh well. The ride's been fun. I'll post the link to my ebay sale shortly. Maybe some mac fanboy can get more joy out of my phone than I have been able to.

Heh, I doubt it.

[Too Many Secrets]

How much longer before Apple stops supporting the iPhone so the hackers can continue their work unhindered?

[DRabbit]

There's a difference between 'not supporting' and 'deliberately breaking'. I explained that in my reply to your ludicrous post in another topic.

Yeah, and I replied there too ;)

You want to turn it into an argument of semantics... like "not supporting" and "breaking" aren't the same thing. In fact, they are.

Apple is not going to write firmware/software updates that leave security holes open. If they close the hole that allowed these 3rd party untrusted apps to function, that is what they are supposed to do for all the people who want a secure device. If you installed 3rd party apps, no problem, just don't update. It's not up to Apple to write updates that will be compatible with software it considered unapproved and untrusted, and that it specifically tells you not to install in the first place.

I read an article earlier today that the vast majority of these 3rd party apps run at the root level and create some kind of security issue. I do not know if it's true, but it was also coming from someone who was a supporter of those same apps. I certainly can't argue it from a programming standpoint, but I can say that even just a tiny little shred of it is true, it's Apple obligation to "fix" it... both from a legal standpoint and a technical one.


Now don't misunderstand me... I have nothing against 3rd party software development and I actually believe it WILL officially happen in the future. At the same time, I also think Apple wants to get all it's own software on there and working properly first before they open up a SDK to code-writing gurus. I've given legitimate examples in other threads of how, at this point, 3rd party software could conflict with their business plan... and I don't doubt it could create technical issues as well. For crying out loud, the device has only been out 3 months and nearly everyone knows the tight control Apple keeps over it's hardware... not to mention Apple has some of it's own bugs to work out on the iPhone.

I can certainly recognize and talk about the iPhone's missing features... but I don't lose my ability to be logical. I also have enough experience with buying Apple computers (as well as PCs) to know how tight Apple is, yet I believe they also offer innovation. While I'm sure there were some fun and useful 3rd party apps I'd rather get my software from trusted sources (and usually do regardless of the platform). Apple is just stricter about who it's gonna trust.

All that said, obviously there is an "us vs. them" mentality around here - which is I think is quite sad. For a community filled with people who are probably pretty darn smart, we can all be so dumb. Modders and Hackers are welcome to have all the fun they want, just don't expect Apple to support it... it's not the way they do business, nor have they ever. There are pros and cons to doing it both ways, and we all have free-will to choose. If you want to break out of jail and mod your phone to the hilt, go for it... just don't update.

[Dawgfan]

Yeah, and I replied there too ;)

You want to turn it into an argument of semantics... like "not supporting" and "breaking" aren't the same thing. In fact, they are.

Apple is not going to write firmware/software updates that leave security holes open. If they close the hole that allowed these 3rd party untrusted apps to function, that is what they are supposed to do for all the people who want a secure device. If you installed 3rd party apps, no problem, just don't update. It's not up to Apple to write updates that will be compatible with software it considered unapproved and untrusted, and that it specifically tells you not to install in the first place.

I read an article earlier today that the vast majority of these 3rd party apps run at the root level and create some kind of security issue. I do not know if it's true, but it was also coming from someone who was a supporter of those same apps. I certainly can't argue it from a programming standpoint, but I can say that even just a tiny little shred of it is true, it's Apple obligation to "fix" it... both from a legal standpoint and a technical one.


Now don't misunderstand me... I have nothing against 3rd party software development and I actually believe it WILL officially happen in the future. At the same time, I also think Apple wants to get all it's own software on there and working properly first before they open up a SDK to code-writing gurus. I've given legitimate examples in other threads of how, at this point, 3rd party software could conflict with their business plan... and I don't doubt it could create technical issues as well. For crying out loud, the device has only been out 3 months and nearly everyone knows the tight control Apple keeps over it's hardware... not to mention Apple has some of it's own bugs to work out on the iPhone.

I can certainly recognize and talk about the iPhone's missing features... but I don't lose my ability to be logical. I also have enough experience with buying Apple computers (as well as PCs) to know how tight Apple is, yet I believe they also offer innovation. While I'm sure there were some fun and useful 3rd party apps I'd rather get my software from trusted sources (and usually do regardless of the platform). Apple is just stricter about who it's gonna trust.

All that said, obviously there is an "us vs. them" mentality around here - which is I think is quite sad. For a community filled with people who are probably pretty darn smart, we can all be so dumb. Modders and Hackers are welcome to have all the fun they want, just don't expect Apple to support it... it's not the way they do business, nor have they ever. There are pros and cons to doing it both ways, and we all have free-will to choose. If you want to break out of jail and mod your phone to the hilt, go for it... just don't update.
I think you are more right here than people are going to give you credit for.

[FourOhFour]

Did I expect 3rd party apps? Yes. Didn't expect them so soon, and I still expect them in the future.

I suspect Apple is waiting to get the API right before they release it to the world. Otherwise they'd have to support backwards compatibility, which gets messy quick. Long term, though, I think it will happen.

[DRabbit]

Did I expect 3rd party apps? Yes. Didn't expect them so soon, and I still expect them in the future.

I suspect Apple is waiting to get the API right before they release it to the world. Otherwise they'd have to support backwards compatibility, which gets messy quick. Long term, though, I think it will happen.

I actually agree with you. I even believe they are already working on 3rd party apps, and the argument could be made that YouTube is already a 3rd party app (even if the effort was a collaboration). I think Apple wants to get it's own software on, workout it's own kinks, allow the software companies it already works close with (like Adobe) the opportunity to get their stuff in... they'll work out the API and SDK and then we'll see official 3rd party apps from other companies.

[mlass]

I wasn't looking for 3rd party Apps, but did expect once the iPhone hit the Market that 3rd Apps would come available just like any other electronic device in the past.

Edit:

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this, if this was a Microsoft Product it would have had 3rd Party Apps abilities and you would see more Companies wanting to developt Apps for it.

[entong]

Did I expect 3rd party apps? Yes. Didn't expect them so soon, and I still expect them in the future.

I suspect Apple is waiting to get the API right before they release it to the world. Otherwise they'd have to support backwards compatibility, which gets messy quick. Long term, though, I think it will happen.

totally agreed with ya :D